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Why don't amateur astronomers report seeing UFOs?

badastronomy.com — The fact they don't -- despite spending more time looking at the sky than anyone -- is what Bad Astronomy blogger Phil Plait calls *his* favorite reason for not believing that UFOs are alien spacecraft. Plait also shares another writer's "snarky" list of Top 10 reasons not to believe. Tin-foil brigade howling in 4, 3, 2, 1 ...

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  • Thinker10, on 05/11/2008, -12/+134I, for one, welcome our new skeptic overlords.
    • nahsrocketeer75, on 05/11/2008, -10/+27Nice twist on an old chestnut. I commend you, sir.
    • BigManOnCampus, on 05/11/2008, -11/+8Thank you, now stop believing in everything unproven, your overlord commands this of you!
    • birkoph, on 05/11/2008, -30/+7I, for one, STFU it's not funny anymore. Sorry you FAIL!
    • zeromancer, on 05/11/2008, -23/+15skepticism is bordering on severe arrogance. You think if an alien race has the technology to travel to earth from across the galaxy or across the universe, that they would intentionally let us know they were there? I mean. Millions of galaxies with billions of stars in each, with even more planets orbiting the stars? I really like those odds. I can't believe you guys think humans are so ***** cool that we're the only intelligent life in the universe. News flash: humans suck. Really bad. We're not special. We're not unique. Stop being so arrogant attempt to contemplate the vastness of the universe, if you can. Then maybe you'll realize that life from other planets is a very real possibility.
      • goffy59, on 05/11/2008, -12/+6Couldn't have said it better myself.
        • fyngyrz, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5Well, here's what I say: I spend a LOT of time looking at the sky...

          http://www.flickr.com/photos/fyngyrz/sets/72157602 ...

          ...and I don't believe or disbelieve. I consider the odds strongly against, given our understanding of physics. I would LOVE to see a UFO, by which I mean something I could not attribute to the physics and capabilities I'm aware of. Years of sky watching and the most interesting thing I've seen that was technology based was being overflown by a stealth bomber in the rolling hills of mid-Montana. Surprised the living heck out of me; didn't hear it coming, barely heard it go, and it was LOW. UFOs? Nope. Nary a one. Darn it.
          • ChildeRoland420, on 05/11/2008, -2/+2Why would ANYONE, let alone visitors from another planet, want to go to Montana?
          • jcm267, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2Glacier National Park and Yellowstone are each at least partially located in Montana. I'm from the East Coast so I don't know, but I'm sure that Montana has great skiing and white water rafting, too.

            Where do you come from that's so much better than Montana?
          • fyngyrz, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2Childe,

            How about very low costs for land and housing, 75 MPH speed limits, very little crime, beautiful open horizons, no sales taxes, legislative refusal to participate in the federal ID program, protection against commercially motivated eminent domain, free and open access to huge lakes, mountains, plains... it's not perfect, but it certainly has a lot going for it.

            I've lived in NYC, California, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Montana... I've visited every state in the union except Hawaii, and Montana has by far been the most pleasant place for me. I'm very happy here.

            I do miss a few things out here on the plains -- fine restaurants, museums and leafy autumns for instance -- but no place is perfect. I don't miss having my motorcycle stolen, following someone down the highway at 20 MPH under the speed limit, lookyloos at the scene of an accident, pollution, parking problems, people who think it's their right to tell you what you can do with your own land... nope, don't miss those things at all.

      • JRobL, on 05/11/2008, -2/+2I agree, it's the Tralfamadorians that are unique! Screw the human race!
      • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -3/+4Science and the reality it springs forth from are not democracies.
      • Chronoped, on 05/11/2008, -4/+5You said it. It seems like the popular thing right now to make the subject of UFOs and those who aren't armchair skeptics the butt of every joke. Just because our race has advanced this far doesn't mean we have the ability to make such claims that we've never been visited or that life on other planets exists a certain way. People need to do the research and understand that not everyone who thinks that we might not be alone are a bunch of nutty cultists.
        • dOOBiEx213, on 05/11/2008, -2/+1I'm not surprised this ginger boy has never seen a UFO. There's a reason he's an astronomer, he's allergic to the sun. People are more skeptical about "lights in the sky," then they would be if they saw an actual Saucer.
        • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -2/+6"It seems like the popular thing right now to make the subject of UFOs and those who aren't armchair skeptics the butt of every joke"

          Those who believe UFOs are ETs are a joke. Those who believe everything implicitly are ridiculous.

          Skepticism requires some amount of evidence and not just "feelings".
          • Chronoped, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2I'm not saying all UFOs are ETs. I'm not saying that's what all non-skeptics believe. And I'm certainly not saying that people just up and believe these things without good reason to. You can find testimony from all walks of life, from your stereotypical southern hicks, to highly qualified scientists and government officials. There's quite a bit of evidence out there, but the majority of people don't take the time to look it all up. Now, there's always a need for skepticism, it's a healthy part of every logical conclusion. But on this issue, the skepticism has run so rampant that's no longer beneficial or always evidence-based. Instead it's turning into a bully that's scaring honest people away, both from listening to and talking about the UFO phenomena.

            This is no joke. People put their lives on the line, socially and physically, to tell others what they've seen. They aren't all crazy, they aren't all liars, and they certainly aren't all blind followers. Then, when people are asked to provide evidence, the bar is perpetually raised for what is deemed "worthy" evidence and what can be thrown out. If they give testimony, they're called liars. If they pass a lie detector, then pictures are required. If they give pictures, they're claimed to be faked/mistaken. If they give video, then it's assumed to be something identifiable. If video analysis says it's something else, uh, well, never mind it doesn't count then, physical evidence is all that matters. Then if they provide physical evidence, the tests are either inconclusive (let's them call the evidence irrelevant) or the tests say there's nothing out of the ordinary (overlooking the possibility that our planets share common materials), at which time the physical evidence is dismissed.

            Given, not everyone has one or all of these forms of evidence, but history tells us it doesn't seem to make a difference either way. It's also true that not every UFO is something extraterrestrial, in fact I think most are Earthy phenomena, but there are still many hundreds of cases which have been left unexplained and ignored. Out of the sheer numbers and odds which obviously state that intelligent life must exist elsewhere, the number of unexplained cases and the thousands of witnesses, I think it's incredibly close-minded to not even admit the possibility that we might have been visited.

            Skeptics need to prove to me BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that we have never ever been visited, and that it is entirely impossible to do so. It doesn't seem like they're even trying.
          • Daz3, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3@Chron - Actually the burden of proof is on those that make the assertion, not those that deny it.
          • angryredplanet, on 05/11/2008, -2/+3Hmmm... credible evidence. Ok, I can think of two such examples.

            John E Blaha in 1989 piloting space shuttle Discovery (STS-33) was (perhaps mistakenly) transmitting over an unencrypted channel which was recorded by amatuer radio operators. NASA's response was that the pilot "switch" after which the airwaves went quiet. The received and recorded message was:

            "Hello Houston this is Discovery we still have the alien spacecraft, uh.. on V.F.R."

            VFR is Visual Flight Rules and indicates that the object is visible to the naked eye.

            NASA has dodged scrutiny on this saying it didn't exist and when presented with the recording, they said it was a joke played by the pilot. Kind of makes skeptics look like the ones who are swallowing the line a little too easily.

            Then there was the STS-75 Challenger "tether incident" in 1997. Cameras were recording in UV (invisible to humans) and recorded a massive number of anomolous objects tracking the broken tether. NASA's official line: Ice particles. Yeah right! Ice doesn't change direction or speed mid-flight. When one such object passed behind the tether it was measured as being at least 3 to 4 miles wide. That is massive and they were all invisible to the naked eye.

            Do I think we're being observed? Undoubtedly, but for what reason I don't know.
      • llamaguy132, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5you've missed the concept of skepticism completely.
        Its just about not making assumptions without evidence, including not assuming there's no alien life or is alien life. Just telling people that those who claim to have seen them and have no evidence are "cranks and weirdos" -Hawkins
        • Chronoped, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2Honest skepticism is fine. It's necessary. But there are a lot of "hardcore skeptics" now, who aren't just there to be scientific and investigative, but to excessively and unfairly criticize their opponents. Logically, yes, there need to be standards for evidence, but there's just no pleasing these people, regardless of whatever evidence you might have. This is not the purpose of real skepticism, and it certainly isn't constructive, yet it's always existed to terrorize that which makes a case against the norm, and the UFO issue is currently the favored prey.
      • Cenobite, on 05/11/2008, -1/+4At no point is the claim made that there is no extraterrestrial life, merely that no E.T.'s are visiting Earth. Whether the reason for this is because E.T. lacks the capability, because they just don't want to, or because they flat-out don't exist is completely moot. You make a good point, but it would carry more weight if you didn't show off the fact that you have the reading comprehension of a second-grader.
      • Abomonog, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Actually, it's not a matter of there being no other life in the universe. It's the fact that this planet is so mind bogglingly dull that no alien in his right mind would be caught dead going here.
    • ophello, on 05/11/2008, -16/+8Phil Plait fails to mention that amateur astronomers spend their time looking through telescopes focused on a very small part of the sky. It is extremely unlikely they are going to see anything moving through a field that small. This argument is BUNK.
      • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -5/+5"Phil Plait fails to mention that amateur astronomers spend their time looking through telescopes focused on a very small part of the sky. It is extremely unlikely they are going to see anything moving through a field that small"

        He's talking about anything in the vicinity of Earth, which is well within their reach.
        • BigManOnCampus, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5As usual, you're an idiot. You've never been with amateur astronomers. Their favorite tools are their own bare eyes, binoculars, and very dark skies. You don't need scopes except for deep sky objects.
      • mstrebe, on 05/11/2008, -1/+9You've obviously never looked through an amateur telescope. I see on average one satellite per night pass through my field of vision. It'd be really interesting if people actually knew what they were talking about on Digg.
      • Cenobite, on 05/11/2008, -1/+4I'm inclined to say that only someone who's never done any amateur astronomy would say such a thing. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but only a small percentage of the time I spend stargazing is spent looking through a telescope. In fact zero percent during meteor showers.

        However, even if this wasn't true and amateur astronomers spent most of their time looking through a telescope, the time we do spend stargazing without a 'scope still heavily outweighs the time your average person on the street spends outside looking up.
        • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2The most important thing is that they actually understand what they're seeing.
    • monoa, on 05/11/2008, -1/+6The best use of "I, for one, welcome..." on Digg to date.

      Umm... hold on, there's a bright light shining through the curtains....
    • tke596survey, on 05/31/2008, -0/+0Well, I am a certified Land Survey Technician, and I have observed some odd things, one was with my father in 2002. We saw a unidentified craft fly over with no sound. As slow, and low as this craft was flying, there should have been some noise. I have lived near our municipal airport for a number of years, and have surveyed at different airports, and observed a number of airplanes. This was no conventional aircraft. I have also witnessed a space shuttle launch, talk about noise. I have a government clearance for contractors, so I have been able to go where only authorized personnel can go, yet I still cannot explain this away. My personnel argument is that most skeptics already have their mind made up, and consider witness testimony as crap. The proof of that argument is in "The Condon Report" by the University of Colorado. But as far as the UFO Hucksters, well follow the money.
  • aLienC, on 05/11/2008, -56/+4Do you guy wan to know how aLien bake cookies with content management system ?
    Please go to http://digg.com/comedy/How_aLien_Bake_Website_with ... to know the detail.....please kindly support :)
  • BigManOnCampus, on 05/11/2008, -2/+25Now that I think about it, I have spent a lot of time looking at the sky, I've never seen one.
    • yojiffyskippy, on 05/11/2008, -0/+12They're onto you. They know you've been looking and they're very sneaky.
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  • michaelpinto, on 05/11/2008, -12/+40My understanding is that most astronomers are using computer aided techniques and radio astronomy to look at the sky so they may not be peering into telescopes. Besides it would be more easy to spot an unidentified flying object during the day rather at night. Not to mention the fact that pilots (who do survey the sky) do report UFOs from time to time - which isn't to say that those objects are alien spacecraft, they're just "unidentified".
    • trogdoor, on 05/11/2008, -1/+18"My understanding is that most astronomers are using computer aided techniques and radio astronomy to look at the sky"

      The question though was about amateur astronomers. I have never met an amateur astronomer who didn't actually look through their telescope, and most also watch the sky unaided during things like meteor showers.
    • dOOBiEx213, on 05/11/2008, -7/+3Agreed. This poor ginger kid can't even go out to the sun! How the ***** do you expect him to see a UFO. Please, don't misunderstand me... I empathize with his severe medical condition, but unless he's a daywalker, he has no voice in this matter.
      • desuexmachina, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2It's pretty hard to be an amateur astronomer in the daylight.
  • Wundur, on 05/11/2008, -13/+9UFOs and Strange Moon Activity Via Telescope :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcn6ug7Nw5k
    • trogdoor, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3Where was this made and by whom? ( John Lenard Walson seems to have his name on a lot of UFO videos so he is either AMAZINGLY lucky when it comes seeing UFO's or he is just collecting / hosting videos from other people )
      Is there any reason that I should trust this person that this is truly unaltered video from a telescope?
      If it was done with a digital camera is the original DV available?
      If this is an amateur astronomer ( the question is why amateur astronomers are not reporting sightings after all ) does he have any regular astronomy footage available?
    • desuexmachina, on 05/11/2008, -0/+6A google search for John Lenard Walson comes back with abovetopsecret and rense in the first three. Not exactly skeptical sources. All I can see is some sort of strange plasma effect with no context followed by the dustiest telescope ever. dusty telescopes = space aliens!
  • SCOTTY2HOTTY654, on 05/11/2008, -18/+31The reason they don't report UFOs is that they are AMATEURS!
    • ufia, on 05/11/2008, -3/+38Looking at the sky with a telescope is for amateurs. Real professionals are using Google Earth to spot UFOs. Then they watch YouTube videos to prove the government is hiding the facts from us.
    • MrPig, on 05/11/2008, -1/+10And the people that do report them are skilled astronomers. Right, right.
    • slightlygifted, on 05/11/2008, -1/+9or maybe because ALIENS DONT VISIT EARTH
    • djdole, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3So are you implying that the EXPERT astronomers report the UFO sightings because they're experts? o_O
      I'd be more inclined to believe that the people reporting every little thing as a UFO are the people who don't understand what they are actually seeing.
    • yojiffyskippy, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4I don't get it. What does porn have to do with UFOs?
    • desuexmachina, on 05/11/2008, -1/+4Olympic athletes are also amateurs. Amateur just means you don't get paid, not the quality of the work.
  • refreshers, on 05/11/2008, -26/+3Cut the spam

    http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/21854?p ...
  • Seth024, on 05/11/2008, -3/+15Most likely because the percentage of amateur astronomers in the general population is very small. Even if a random person looks at the sky for 1 minute each night, collectively they see a lot more than the astronomers.
    Also, most astronomers are intelligent enough not to report the smallest light in the sky as a UFO.
  • spyd3rweb, on 05/11/2008, -2/+67But theres some UFO documentary on History Channel like 5 times a day...
    • trotskyist, on 05/11/2008, -1/+43I guess they ran out of stuff to say about Hitler.
    • slightlygifted, on 05/11/2008, -0/+13along with ghost documentaries.
    • Yage2006, on 05/11/2008, -1/+7Ya and there all full of *****.
      It's appalling they run that crap along with those ghost shows
    • julianrod, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Yeah... History Channel = Second World War Channel
  • DinosWillDie13, on 05/11/2008, -23/+20Are they seriously trying to claim that since we haven't found anything substantial in an endless universe in this relatively short amount of time, that UFO's can't exist? This seems like a steaming pile of closed-minded ***** to me.
    • colincornaby, on 05/11/2008, -1/+38No one is saying that UFO's can't exist in the whole universe. It's the idea that UFO's frequently visit Earth that's in doubt.
      • ZenMojo, on 05/11/2008, -7/+3Because a guy with a telescope covering less than 1 degree of the night sky never saw one. Why didn't I think of that!
        • colincornaby, on 05/11/2008, -0/+11Because lots of guys with lots of telescopes covering lots of the night sky don't see them.
    • tama00, on 05/11/2008, -5/+9The article never said Aliens dont exist, just said all the reported UFO's are not really UFO's.
      • oldgal, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5if they are in fact unidentified, they are UFOs. Doesn't mean, however, that they have anything to do with aliens.
    • commenter01, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5i love steaming piles...
      • rex84, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3Woah, have I got a steaming pile for you...
  • mbonzo531, on 05/11/2008, -2/+69UFOs don't come to this planet anymore in fear of us injecting a virus onto their space ships.
    • commenter01, on 05/11/2008, -7/+12dugg for Independence Day reference. nicely done, sir.
      • rex84, on 05/11/2008, -5/+1 .
      • mcla0181, on 05/11/2008, -4/+1could have been a reference to War of the Worlds...
      • thzae, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2War of the Worlds silly...
        • Fetttson, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5No virus was *injected* in War of the Worlds.
          Learn your science fiction!
    • Lukesed, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3No, they don't come to earth because the the cigarette smoking man.... *****, I never watched past season six, somebody put something funny and relevant here.
    • goffy59, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2They don't want our STD's!
    • thzae, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1They can bit torrent just as well as anyone else...
    • Cyrodox, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2I could've swore it was because of oil prices.
  • overtoke, on 05/11/2008, -7/+5They are inside an observatory, usually remote, and don't see the entire sky, unless they decide to go outside and take a personal photo for fun.
  • 4bit, on 05/11/2008, -3/+11Good argument.

    The 10 reasons why not he links to are bit to tongue in cheek, besides they include:

    "The government can't hide secrets".

    IF the believers are correct, the government has not hid it's secrets, we just don't believe. There are plenty of government ties to UFOs reported that the populace just dismisses.

    I'm not saying that IS proof of UFOs, just not counter proof.

    You know?
    • deltaandroid, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5He only says that because no one knows any secrets the government wont tell people, creating the illusion that they are an open book and we know everything.
      • CyclonusRIP, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5The reason he says that is because like every other conspiracy theory it relies on a huge number of people collectively keeping a secret over a long time.
        • infinitus64, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2not really alot of people would have to know just enough to keep the others from finding out , not saying there is a conspiracy but why do you think their is compartmentalization in the armed forces; to keep information classified and on a strictly need to know basis.
        • desuexmachina, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3Not only is there the problem of a huge number of people keeping a secret, but there's an enormous profit to letting such a secret out. Such secrets are always much harder to keep.
          • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Just like with ghosts, bigfoot, etc. UFO-aliens are a huge tourist draw and local businesses encourage the stories.
  • Xplodzion, on 05/11/2008, -6/+4Maybe it's because they haven't spent years looking at nothing, so they have not entirely reached the "I'm bored, let's make something up!" stage.
  • Atlantics, on 05/11/2008, -27/+1I'm OGC to gay porn.
  • Chainheart, on 05/11/2008, -4/+7Obviously, the aliens despise these grumpy skeptics and use mind-reading devices to check their tin foiless heads and avoid their line of sight
  • MrESaulved, on 05/11/2008, -3/+16Once you I the U in the UFO, it's not only no longer a UFO, it might not even be a FO, or even an O.

    Things have names for a reason.
    • yojiffyskippy, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3Oh it's an still an O even if it's imaginary.
    • Daz3, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Exactly - and the fact that you might not be able to identify it does not magically mean it is an alien space craft visiting earth. That is the logical lapse that bothers me the most.
      • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1It's the one that supernaturalists miss the most.
  • hollyminkowski, on 05/11/2008, -4/+6Any alien race capable of traveling between star systems would possess a technology that to us would appear to be pure magic. It is unlikely we would spot them in their "spaceships"
    Alien intelligent life within our own system is very very unlikely.
    • blackjack75, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2On the other hand if they live secretly on the moon, they might just come here using bikes. Haven't you seen that documentary with the little boy and the extra-terrestriat entity back in the 80's?
  • oep4, on 05/11/2008, -0/+8Description = The story.
  • BECoole, on 05/11/2008, -4/+4Who says they don't?
  • RogerStrong, on 05/11/2008, -5/+7I don't believe that UFOs have visited, but I disagree with two points on this list.

    >> No alien monkey wrench.

    Even if the solar system were littered with alien artifacts - tools, old fuel tanks and discarded packaging, etc., there's no reason to believe we'd have found anything by now.

    The solar system is BIG. Planet and moon surfaces are BIG. We've actually seen, between manned an unmanned landings, maybe 20 square miles up close.

    If someone had scattered a thousand Volkswagon Beetles around the solar system in 1955, on planet and moon surfaces and in various orbits, it's a safe bet we wouldn't have found one by now.

    >> We can't find them

    Scientific American had a good SETI article about ten years back. Apparently if an identical earth - transmitting the same radio signals - were placed at the closest star (Proxima Centari), we probably wouldn't be able to detect it. The one exception was if the Arecibo Observatory at Proxima were transmitting directly at us, and the Arecibo Observatory here were pointed at Proxima and listenning.

    They had more hopes for Optical SETI. We can count individual photons, and detect the difference between a normal photon count and a distant laser beam pointed our way.
    • ZenMojo, on 05/11/2008, -3/+1There are hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of satellites orbiting Earth packed miles thick with space debris. And he expects to find a singular piece of debris?
  • LastDitchHero, on 05/11/2008, -5/+17Many UFO sighting occur around Military installation and Nuclear installations vs boring astronomer telescopes. If you were an alien race observing a species wouldn't you want a look at the first two? Also, many TRAINED military observers have see unidentified craft. I would trust an Airman vs an Astronomer anyday on identifying aircraft.
    • BobSutan, on 05/11/2008, -2/+7Look up the RAF Bentwaters case. Lots of interesting stuff to pour over there. One of the SF's even claims to have touched a UFO when it landed. The Base deputy commander went out the next night to dismiss what was going on and put the case to rest officially...that is, until he saw the UFO and was dumbstruck by what he witnessed, well documented by his personal recordings all along the way.
    • exec721, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5Good point. I've actually seen something myself. Coincidentally, it happened to be out in the desert of Hesperia, CA. Being a skeptic, I believe it was some type of test craft. I had my doubts about it at first, but when I saw a glowing orange light do a quick zig zag formation in the sky before disppearing into the night, I was pretty convinced that I saw something special. Surprisingly, I happened to be sober that night =)
    • systemdowned, on 05/11/2008, -1/+1Why was "Bentwaters" starred out like it was a curse word when I wasn't logged in?
    • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -3/+3I think everyone is, and most importantly should be, a skeptic until they actually see something that makes them say "*****, we really are not alone after all". I personally had my encounter up in the boundary waters (northern Minnesota/Canadian border). When multiple people see craft moving around in every which direction (i.e. from one end of the sky to another in less then a second) for 10+ minutes on a perfectly clear night (stars were amazing) and can actually see the heat trails being generated from bouncing off the atmosphere, then you have reason to believe.
      • Daz3, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2What proof do you have that it was an alien space craft and not just a UFO?
  • iwantedk2, on 05/11/2008, -24/+0my kids and i caught 1 the other day

    http://hawaiiattorneyonline.com/

    email me if you want to pat it
  • jpete71chevmal, on 05/11/2008, -7/+24I never saw a blue whale, but I believe they exist. Just because you didn't see something, doesn't mean it isn't there.
    • Lukesed, on 05/11/2008, -6/+3Yes, I believe we are seeing the rare proof by lack of evidence in its natural habitat.
    • yojiffyskippy, on 05/11/2008, -3/+8But just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it exists.
      • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -2/+5And what if you have, but no one (besides "crazies") listens?
        • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1You should entertain the thought that perhaps what you saw may not be what you THINK you saw.
    • Daz3, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3And just because you see a UFO doesn't mean that aliens are visiting earth.
    • MackenzieArbour, on 05/11/2008, -1/+1He's not saying that aliens don't exist, he's saying that they don't frequently visit Earth.
    • ErrorS, on 05/11/2008, -0/+7The thing is, there's enough evidence for me to believe blue whales exist..countless pictures, videos, witnesses, all of high quality. Some blury photo of a spaceship or a gas station attendant's account of an encounter doesn't do a whole lot to convince me aliens have visited earth.
      I keep an open mind, I'd love for some good evidence to show up.
      • subliminalurge, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Having seen a UFO myself, I'd also love for some good evidence to show up.

        I wish I'd had a camera with me that night, if only to increase the odds of my eventually figuring out what the hell it was that I saw. About 30 other people in the same parking lot saw it as well, and not a single one of us could come up with even a reasonable guess as to what it was.

        Now, understand that I'm not claiming that it was an alien spacecraft. I'm simply saying that I've seen an object (or possibly objects) in the night sky that a large group of reasonable, intelligent people agree did not look like anything that we're capable of building.

        I'd LOVE to know what the ***** it was.
  • coffee200am, on 05/11/2008, -3/+5If Aliens did exist....It wouldn't be like Star Trek or Star Wars.
    • bagboyrebel, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5you mean, it most likely wouldn't be like those, you can't prove that they wouldn't though.
      • yojiffyskippy, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Unless he's an ...... ALIEN!... Da Da Dammmmmmmmm.
  • Fartbandit, on 05/11/2008, -0/+8I once saw what i would call a UFO whilst star gazing with a friend. However i know all too well that the human mind has a capacity to fill in the blanks often wrongly so I remind myself that i simply saw what i saw.... A light in the sky that i couldn't identify and defied an explanation from both me and my friend but was still only a light in the sky. I still to this day dont have a decent explanation for what it might have been but it more than likely has a rational one....
    • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2Well of course it does. Extra terrestrial contact is a very rational explanation.
      • Daz3, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2If and only if we have proof of the existence of extra terrestrial life forms.
    • Daz3, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4I had a very similar experience and I came to the exact same conclusion. Seeing something unidentifiable does not equate to seeing an alien space craft.
  • UltramegaOK, on 05/11/2008, -21/+15. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _________
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ./ It’s a Trap!
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  • yubpro, on 05/11/2008, -9/+14You can dig me down if you don't think I'm being honest, but when I was much younger, around 7 or 8, I remember playing in my backyard (Cleveland) and seeing a dark tinted ball fly from one side of my yard to another. It clearly wasn't any technology the public is aware of, and I won't say that it was alien. It was just that, an unidentified flying object. For all I know it was a product of government technology. I know the memory is real too, because immediately afterwards I ran indoors and told my mom, and drew a picture for her. Obviously she thought it was a product of my imagination, and even today she doesn't know what to make of it. The point is, if I've seen something like that, I can't say for sure that others who claim they've seen aliens are lying. It's ignorant to exclude all the potential in the universe.
    • djcreamy, on 05/11/2008, -2/+19It was a probably a dark blue balloon from the birthday party next door. A party which, by the way, you were not invited to because all the other kids were tired of you making ***** up.
    • source1984, on 05/11/2008, -2/+10I'm sorry but the testimony of a 7-8 year old isn't exactly "reliable" no offense to you.
      • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -2/+3Also, whenever anyone says "are you calling my MOM a liar?!" the proper answer is yes. You didn't really want to be friends with a family that stupid anyway.
        • yubpro, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Haha, moms are just as capable of lies as anybody else. Anyhow, I wasn't really trying to convince you that UFO's exist, but for people who have memories (it's real enough to me) of seeing UFO's do you see the conundrum in getting anybody to believe us? They just call you liars, or say it's a false memory. If that's true, however, why don't I have false memories of other events that can be easily corroborated by other honest individuals. Who would lie about seeing a UFO, come on! Well, to me, at least, it wouldn't be worth it.
          • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2I was mostly kidding.

            The point is that human experience is flawed. Our senses, and certainly our ability to process sensory information, it's very affected by popular culture and expectations.

            http://skepdic.com/pareidol.html

            Fatima is also a good example of the expectation driving a communal understanding of an experience.
          • yubpro, on 05/12/2008, -0/+1I agree whole heartedly with you, the human experience like the rest of the world isn't perfect. I don't understand why people try to act like they're not capable of the same faults as any other person. But in the same sense, it's difficult for me to completely disregard such an experience I recall so vividly as just a glitch. Though I'm aware it's possible.

            Thanks digg, now I need to go see a psychologist.
    • PikkonX, on 05/11/2008, -1/+6I had a pretty similar experience with my friend when we were younger too. We were about 11 and were playing in his backyard when the basic old UFO (it looked as stereotypical as things get; saucer shaped with circular lights all around it and it was huge) flew right above a tree in his backyard, hovered for about 15 seconds, and then took off faster than anything I've ever seen. We ran into the house and his mom made us draw separate pictures even though she thought it was our imagination as well. Later on that night when watching the news, a police officer reported seeing the same thing that we drew and only then did his mom believe us. I think most, but not all, craft of this kind are simply products of our government and the UFO hysteria provides the perfect cover-up for these devices. If no one believes the technology or knowledge for them is possible at this point in time, then there's no explaining you have to do. Like so many secret aircraft in the past, we'll probably never get a real look at these things until a serious war breaks out.
    • Yage2006, on 05/11/2008, -2/+5False or selective memory syndrome.
      Look into it.
      • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3That is not a reasonable explanation for memories such as these. Believing that false memory can account for all of the UFO claims is ignorance at its finest.
        • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -2/+2Why not? That something was seen is not in question.
          • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3No, the claim that seeing something tangible in a uninfluenced way is the work of delusions or false memories is ridiculous. Thats like you claiming that the blue car I just saw driving down the street was the work of a false memory. I suggest you actually go and look into what false memory syndrome really is. Usually it is a trivial event that is made into a major event with a false implication far in the future. If you saw something extraordinary and remember it often for years, it is not a false memory. You MUST keep an open mind about these things. People who believe that these things are extra terrestrial still accept the fact that it is a very good possibility that the explanation for what they saw lies in the terrestrial realm. But people who jump on the "they are all crazy" bandwagon are delusional at best.
      • starmanjones, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2i don't think its that simple. here i go shooting myself in the foot. i think this is more a criticism of a criticism than anything.

        i've passed this by with interest over the last couple days. regardless of how tempting it is to say... there is something here... i am a skeptic. i do fear having my name tied to or saying something off hand that will be on the record forever.

        i know amateur astronomers and they do see things they can't explain. they don't often report them because... report them to who? why report them? most astronomers ameture or not tend to think in terms of the scientific method. so what if they've seen something they couldn't explain... jumping to the conclusion that its an alien spacecraft is just not the way they think.

        astronomers look up at the sky a lot. i'm not sure they spend a lot more time looking at the naked sky than anyone else. they spend a great deal of time looking at a very small spot in the sky. if you are using a larger telescope under a dome and there are a lot of them around.. you put in some coordinates and the telescope moves there... they read lots of periodicals. they spend time looking at electronic images. not good activities for stumbling across UFOs.

        then there is a logistical issue. even if you saw a real alien spacecraft and were certain of what you saw... there are so many confounding things on, in and around earth that being conclusive is just almost ruled out. you have one long shot antidotal chance of being right on a list of several thousand other events that you could mistake for what you saw. certainty just doesn't seem likely in the vicinity of earth.

        but my biggest reason for being skeptical are the numbers involved. i think the odds of an alien civilization noticing us over here in the few short years we've been on the universal grid... and cared enough to traveled here to the outskirts of the milkyway are so slim that it very nearly rules it out. find another explanation.

        if aliens overcome the numbers and are among us then that implies that the universe is much much different than we think it is. thats a scarier proposition than aliens... are there more dimensions of time? are there no dimensions of time? do we coexist with parallel universes?

        the last few years we've found a large number of particles that are described as "streaming through us all the time but barely interacting with anything." sounds suspiciously like a parallel existence of some sort or other.

        our choices are the extremes with not much in between. a fair case could be made for either.

        here is what makes me pause. in science we have to be careful of antidotal evidence. it isn't often that it does anything but distract from serious science. i am increasing uncomfortable with the numbers of high quality, high functioning... dead serious people who have a lot to loose if being associated with what is considered "fringe... not even science" pans out to be a mistake. at what point do the numbers of and quality of the reports start to equal a conservative skeptical position on UFOs.

        finally, there is me. i have spent a great number of hours laying on my back in the grass looking at the sky. i've seen lights that flash green and red and move at angles and speeds that i couldn't explain. they get filed in my brain as strange and unknown... they don't do anything to my opinion about UFOs for the reasons i stated above. eyes in the dark. distortion... funny angles... there are just too many things that could explain them even if i don't know what they are.

        but i have seen one thing that stands out. before dusk i was going to a town 40 miles north. a friend was with me. as we left i saw a large odd colored light. a yellowish tint like the yellow of an incandescent light bulb. i decided it was the landing lights of a jet headed for a large airport 75 miles away. i pointed it out to my friend because it had been in that position for 15 or more minutes and that is a long time for a plane in a landing pattern to fly straight at you. most planes come from the south west traveling to the north east. this plane would have been traveling from south east to north west. i had no idea how long it had been there. i looked up and there it was. I watched in my rear view mirror as we left town. then i forgot about it.

        we were on the way back home after midnight. i looked up and that light was still exactly where it was when we left. i started getting excited and drove like hell to get home and get out my telescope and figure out what this was. we were 5 miles from home when it started pulsing. we were going straight south. it was in the extreme eastern sky. it started moving and steadily sped up until it disappeared in the extreme western sky in a matter of 10 seconds. it appeared to follow the curvature of the earth. it got smaller as it moved away.

        the memory is vivid. i know what i saw. i knew what i should be paying attention to about its position and color... and... all the stuff an amateur astronomer would know. did i report it? no. to who? did i tell other astronomy people what i saw. ya. my friend saw the exact same thing i did. this had a very real impact on me. i can't say... i saw an alien spacecraft. i have no idea what we saw.

        i am still a skeptic. what i saw is at odds with what i know. there is the story of one amateur astronomer.
    • silverleaves, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2My mother saw the exact same thing (and it wasn't a balloon ) It was a silver ball that floated from her street into her yard. It made a strange high pitched sound but not a sound that hurt your ears. It went straight the made a right turn so it wasn't being moved by any wind. It was a bright sunny day in Los Angeles in 1932.
  • BlueTunicLink, on 05/11/2008, -7/+25Considering the infinite reach of the universe, aliens nearly have to exist. They might not go on vacations to Earth, but they most likely exist.
    • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -1/+7The Universe is a finite realm, not infinite.
      • blackjack75, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2I had read this over and over again, and I am inclined to believe it because smarter people than do believe it. Yet, in my simple mind there's no way I can picture a finite universe (unless it's contain in something else which is infinite).
        • lkms, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1this is really more of a philosophical problem. you cannot tell if the universe is infinite or not, for the same reasons that you cannot tell if there is "god" or not (for the starters, you would have to define "god", then try to prove that it does not exist, both of which are impossible). Physics allows us to guess the history of universe - how it was created and how it will end. in these terms the universe is the process of existence of some kind of entity that we exist within and that was defined by the "big bang". those who tell "universe is infinite", probably mean something else than this entity. however we cannot tell what "lies" beyond the limits of the "our" universe as we barely can see the tiniest fraction of it.

          in other words.. the notion that universe is infinite "because if there is some edge of the universe, something should lie beyond it" (which is only an extension of our daily life experience, which you really shouldn't try to apply to the science if you're smart) is the same as saying "if we exist, then someone should have created us, therefore there is god". both statements are equally illicit.
    • Daz3, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2The universe is at the very most only circa 38 billion light years across, that equates to being extremely finite.
      • niczar, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2The universe is 13 billion years old. If it started as a point, from the big bang on, it would be at most 26 billion light years across. If not, it's most likely infinite.
        • Daz3, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Yeah, sorry. Not sure how I messed up that basic arithmetic - must be tired.
  • deadbaby, on 05/11/2008, -1/+38Everyone knows UFO's only turn off their cloaking device when they fly over the homes of crazy people.
    • maelnum, on 05/11/2008, -3/+3The one that I saw must have had its cloaking device on the fritz then. Because I clearly saw it.

    • pixelbender, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4I'd do it too just to ***** with'em.
  • DigitAl56K, on 05/11/2008, -1/+12Really though, if you have a telescope zoomed in on a planet/moon/etc. and a UFO did fly directly in front of your lens, you aren't going to see anything but a blip, because it would be so incredibly out of focus. Also, you've have little reason to suspect it was anything other than a plane if you did see something.

    I think it's a bit unlikely that aliens are flying around our skies at night. They're far more likely to walk among us and eat our brains while we sleep. Sleep well fellow diggers, sleep well... O.O
  • DeFex, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5A ufo landed on buffalo channel 7 news roof, but they didnt report it until it caught fire.
  • harlowsmonkeys, on 05/11/2008, -1/+11My recollection of back when I was heavily into amateur astronomy is that most of my time peering at the sky was through my telescope. A whole invading armada of UFOs could have flown by, and I probably would have missed them, as the field of view of an astronomical telescope is pretty small.
  • uncoveror, on 05/11/2008, -14/+2Why don't amateur astronomers report UFOs? Because their overlords who run history's greatest cover-up, NASA and The Air Force would make them disappear. Read more!
    http://www.uncoveror.com/ufos.htm
    http://www.uncoveror.com/aliens.htm
    http://www.uncoveror.com/invaders.htm
    • chrisduser, on 05/11/2008, -0/+7No sources, check.
      No high res images, check.
      Dugg down, check.
  • stilesja, on 05/11/2008, -4/+25Here is a thought: Humans evolved in the past 65 million years, since the dinosaurs were wiped out. Earth has been around about 3.5 billion years, universe 13.7B years. Hubble examined a tiny slice of sky the size of a grain of sand at arms length and found 1300 Galaxies each with at least a billion stars. In this universe there has been time enough and space enough for billions of civilizations to have been formed, wiped out and new ones put into place a hundred times over before light from the first civilization would have reached us. Are there other forms of life out there wondering, as we are, if there there is anyone else out there? Undoubtedly. Have the developed the technology to out run the light escaping from their own planet and come visit us? No. Hell, let say there is an alien astronomer 100million light years away observing earth from a telescope so powerful he could see your house. Why would he want to visit us, for all he knows he would be eaten by the decendant of the Velociraptor or T-Rex.

    Space is too vast. Our best hope for communication with alien life will most be through a distant radio communication.
    • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2Radio is analog and it would most certainly degrade over time and be indistinguishable from the background noise of the cosmos.
      • tomz17, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5FAIL! Here is why :
        - Does not understand word analog, assumes otherwise and uses it anyway
        - Does not know how radio works
        - Uses the phrase "most certainly" when talking out ass
        • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2"- Does not understand word analog, assumes otherwise and uses it anyway
          - Does not know how radio works"

          Welcome to most every comment here dealing with SETI.
    • zyko, on 05/11/2008, -1/+1You are assuming we are not part of a sim game based in the future.
    • andreegal, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Why.. would.. what?
    • blackjack75, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2And what about spaceports? Why just not use them? Looks much simpler to me.
  • Snaffler, on 05/11/2008, -1/+1Well, I bet these astronomers have never been deeply probed by cold steel rods held in the tentacles of alien scientists. Then they would believe, yes they would.
  • Stevanoski, on 05/11/2008, -0/+21Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
    • fredmv, on 05/11/2008, -0/+9Gotta love Carl Sagan.
      • Stevanoski, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Yes, he also stated in all time there is not one speck of evidence which is virtually impossible.
  • NaitYevrah, on 05/11/2008, -6/+10The author of this article writes in a tone as if someone is desperately trying to convince him there are aliens piloting these UFO.... He says "This debate has been going on for eons and the pro-UFO crowd hasn't been able to make a case that the anti-UFO crowd will buy."

    It's more like.... the anti-UFO crowd cant come up with explanations to explain all the thousands of sightings and testimonials that the pro-UFO crowd will buy...

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Finally, he uses the term UFO as if it were intertwined with aliens. If he doesn't believe in aliens, that's fine... no criticism to him.... but not believing in "Unidentified Flying Objects" means that we as humans can accurately identify every object that has ever traveled through out atmosphere and immediate vicinity in space...... which is wildly hilarious
    • Yage2006, on 05/11/2008, -4/+2Who says they can't and just because its not explainable doesn't mean it isn't explain able. I hate it when people use the fact that anything is unexplainable and then use that fact as proof to there delusional claim.
      I'll add you cant take personal anecdotes as evidence either unless you have something to back them up "which has never happened once"
      • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2The only delusional one is yourself. I hate it when people use the fact that something is unexplainable and then use that fact to claim that someones encounter was wrong or flat out "delusional".
      • NaitYevrah, on 05/11/2008, -0/+0PLEASE give me a hit of what you are smoking.... because it must be some good stuff...
    • NaitYevrah, on 05/11/2008, -0/+0.
  • sfacets, on 05/11/2008, -5/+4It's not like they can't exist, it's just that all the sightings have been BS viewings by inbred white trash.
  • swrostmore, on 05/11/2008, -7/+9Amateur (and professional) astronomers do in fact report seeing UFOs in basically the same proportion as any other demographic does.
    http://www.ufoevidence.org/Cases/CaseView.asp?sect ...
    • Yage2006, on 05/11/2008, -1/+6I think ill trust what phil plate has to say over that ridiculous site you just posted.
      You cant take that seriously are you that easily fooled ? lol
      • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -1/+1I love how you so easily claim that a site is a fairytale yet when someone makes up a equally ridiculous fairytale you eat it up as truth. Your ignorance is astounding.
  • omnithought, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3I think, with the vastness of the universe and the fact that we're starting to find very simple lifeforms on Mars that the idea of life elsewhere is within the realm of possibility. We've seen such a tiny fragment of what's out there. I neither believe nor disbelieve in extraterrestrial life, but at least it's something that has a chance of being proven.
    • Yage2006, on 05/11/2008, -2/+3He never states he does not believe in life elsewhere.
      This is strictly the claim of people saying they have seen UFOs.
      I believe in life in the universe I do not believe in those who claim to have seen aliens or UFOs "until I see hard evidence" Not blurry pictures or personal anecdotes.
      If they are truly being honest with themselves then there are things that explain what they saw like sleep paralysis, False memory syndrome, Brain seizures , Hallucinations maybe from drug use and many other things that are far more likely then them actually seeing beings who have mastered traveling at faster then the speed of light to come and visit us.
      • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2LOL pseudo science to explain pseudo science! I love your rationale! Please, keep on going!
  • Tyrghast, on 05/11/2008, -2/+8Screw aliens, Snorg tee's girl is lookin fine!
    • mbonzo531, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3Yup and it must be especially cold where the busted tees chicks are hanging out.
  • bagboyrebel, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5most of these reasons are actually pretty bad.
    "There are no secrets. You say the space junk exists but it's being kept hidden by governments including our own? Phooey. First of all, our leaders would never do such a thing (don't make use an emoticon). Moreover and much more seriously, people who cling to this belief simply do not understand how lousy governments are at keeping secrets. Those who think the media is involved in the cover-up - like my own brother, for crying out loud - have no idea how many journalists would trade one of their own children for a scoop of this magnitude. And remember, the cover-up needs to have been ongoing flawlessly for generations now to support the theory."
    This one doesn't make any sense because, one, how the hell does this guy know what our leaders would do and why doesn't he explain that point, and two, the whole idea is that it's a secret part of the government that is supposed to hold these secrets (if there are any) and it's not like the media would have much access to it.
  • MadOgre, on 05/11/2008, -1/+9Probably because with the bigass telescopes they can see the the "US AIRFORCE" on the sides of the planes. (DNRTFA)
    • blackjack75, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3... and they think "Why waste thing, those idiots are going to blow each other off, let's see if we can find a civilization that's worth our attention".
  • nard3456, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4cause no one believes them and if they do have any proof it is still questionable
  • noahhoward, on 05/11/2008, -2/+11Did we ever figure out what happened at O'Hare? I know the officials said weather phenomena but I don't recall the solid gray disk cloud formation from my weather classes.
    • Yage2006, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3If its the one i think it was a low altitude cloud.
      If its the other one it was military flairs.
      • noahhoward, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2Phoenix was military flares, yeah. But the incident at O'Hare was certainly not a cloud according to the pilots and ground crew reports.
    • ParaSwarm, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3Nope. People have really short memories. Especially here in the US.
    • SpudDuffer, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3The photos taken that day were made with cell phones, the quality is so bad that the saucer shaped object looks like the clouds above it, so most people say it is a cloud, period. But, the many eye witnesses who were there have said it looked solid and metallic, and it appeared to be real,not the clouds, the fact that it punched a hole through the clouds as it left straight up as it left, is also reported by the witnesses. The blue sky could be seen through the circular hole that was left behind, several of the witnesses were pilots.
    • blarch, on 05/11/2008, -2/+1for real. i had to bury this article because it's linked to opinionated BS:
      "There are no secrets. You say the space junk exists but it's being kept hidden by governments including our own? Phooey. First of all, our leaders would never do such a thing" O RLY? BushCo. didn't lie about the Iraq?
  • Yage2006, on 05/11/2008, -1/+9Thats because amateur astronomers are the aliens ? :)
  • nitrojunky24, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4I think if they did find us they would not be interested in bothering with us! who are these stone age morons?
    oohhhhh they went to there own moon big deal! we went have way across the ***** galaxy for this crap. screw it lets go home!
  • ghostmutt, on 05/11/2008, -2/+7hey true believers: Is there any indisputable proof of the existence of UFO's, that isn't hidden by earth's governments? If yes, please post, and if plausible, we'll digg it. But if no, then don't fall back on the worn out "what-are-the-odds" or "they're avoiding us" arguments as proof, because that is not proof.
    • ParaSwarm, on 05/11/2008, -2/+4We don't have proof they exist, and you don't have proof they don't exist. But yep. The odds are in the favor of them existing. Greatly in their favor.
      • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -2/+4"The odds are in the favor of them existing. Greatly in their favor."

        The odds that we will ever meet them are not.
        • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -3/+3Unless we are their science experiment. Not that I believe this, its just that it provides a very rational explanation of the UFO phenomena and why they are so elusive. The fact is that people observe these objects in large numbers. Explaining it away with tales of swamp gas or "false memories"/hallucinations is just as ridiculous as believing it was ET experimenting on a large scale civilization simulation.
          • chaosium, on 05/11/2008, -1/+1Maybe we're just brains in vats, maaaan.
    • zeusthemoose, on 05/11/2008, -2/+1Right, because your use of proving a negative is so rational! Your thought process is quite hysterical!
  • kds405, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2because they are up-to-no-goodniks
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