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John Hagee Said Hitler Was Fulfilling God's Will (AUDIO)
huffingtonpost.com — John Hagee, the controversial evangelical leader and endorser of Sen. John McCain, argued in a late 1990s sermon that the Nazis had operated on God's behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine.
Neticule- 2844 diggs
- digg it
- Neticule, on 05/21/2008, -13/+99here is the audio via youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErC1IJeHnyc
the crazy sermon starts about 30 seconds in- Nougat, on 05/21/2008, -2/+15Summary:
According to Hagee, God allowed Hitler to perpetrate the holocaust in order to convince the Jews to return to the land of Israel.- sanman, on 05/22/2008, -3/+2If you look at the history and quantity of Jew-bashing comments on Digg, you'd think that Hagee would be a celebrity on here for saying that.
- arTech, on 05/21/2008, -4/+16Too bad no one on Fox News, MSNBC, CNN will pick this up and run it.
- Nemoso, on 05/22/2008, -7/+4Why should they? This isn't news, it's just typical THP *****.
- maj0rm0j0, on 05/22/2008, -1/+4It is news. Hagee calls America a Pagan nation and John McCain supports him. That's news to me. I like to know if McCain hangs around or supports people that hate America.
- Nemoso, on 05/22/2008, -7/+4Why should they? This isn't news, it's just typical THP *****.
- theOster, on 05/21/2008, -5/+2aren't all extremists based in religious beliefs?
- provost, on 05/21/2008, -2/+7dude.. your daughter can get an abortion at public school without telling you but she can't get an aspirin?
LOL. Where the ***** does this guy get this from? - zepher5150, on 05/21/2008, -5/+1Why can't America just stick to the issues? I can't believe anyone takes the likes Hagee or Wright seroiusly.
- maj0rm0j0, on 05/22/2008, -3/+1The DNC needs to keep replaying Hagee calling America a Pagan Nation over and over and over and keep asking why John McCain is aligned with a man that hates America!
- jlfb, on 05/27/2008, -0/+1When Evangelical Christians say they "support" the Jews, and criticize others as being anti-Semitic, it is very ironic because anti-semitism pretty much came out of Christianity. Make no mistake, right-wing Christians may "support" Israel now, but this is only for their own twisted end-times theology Ala McCain endorser Pastor John Hagee. In their minds, when the end comes, it will be their duty to behead all Jews who refuse to "convert" to their religion.
- Nougat, on 05/21/2008, -2/+15Summary:
- AtHomeBoy2000, on 05/21/2008, -25/+292Dude, this guy blows Wright out of the water.
- grlykool, on 05/21/2008, -1/+27Wait till you hear Parsley. "WE get off on War" really who says that? Where is that in the Bible?
- thirdcoastborn, on 05/21/2008, -1/+16the bible says....there is a time for war and a time for peace. parsley is just another religious nut who makes real christians look bad.
- bradysdaman, on 05/21/2008, -4/+7Christians can do that just fine themselves, never mind the fact that this story is really old
- snassiri, on 05/21/2008, -5/+3That's unnecessary and disrepectful of the many millions of practicing Christians who don't associate themselves with the religious right, the ones who are commonly derided in forums like these.
Are you intolerant to all religions, or just Christianity selectively> - bpoteat, on 05/22/2008, -2/+4i can't speak for bradysdaman, but I AM intolerant to all religions. For the most part, every one of them is a bunch of "my version of santa is better than all the others". Even the ones that seem harmless are, by definition, exclusionistic and usually cause inherent rifts in otherwise peaceful populations.
- thePuck77, on 05/22/2008, -1/+6I hate and am intolerant of the big three, period. Call me a bigot, but anyone who doesn't share my bigotry is in denial of the facts of history. Screw punishing Nazis or feeling guilty about the American Indians...how about we hold Christianity responsible for the destruction of every indigenous culture it ever came into contact with?
- bradysdaman, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1yea apparently you can bpoteat, lol, religion in general is stupid, I've studied enough to history to know we'd be much better off without it. Its a stupid idea and was created to control people. I happen to think for myself and don't want a church or a government telling me what to do. Religion is a waste of time and energy that allows a select few to control a population. In extreme cases... i.e. extremists (which will be a word we hear a lot of this fall) someone exploits that devotion i.e. Osama Bin Laden.
- thirdcoastborn, on 05/21/2008, -1/+16the bible says....there is a time for war and a time for peace. parsley is just another religious nut who makes real christians look bad.
- frontalpha, on 05/21/2008, -25/+6Wright was out of the water and in space along time ago.
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -2/+33most of the religious right say things that are worse than anything wright ever said. billy graham talked about not trusting jews. falwell, james dobson, and david wilkerson blamed 9/11 on our tolerance of gays. hagee blamed katrina on gays and the gaza pullout. yet they remain close to political figures, have huge megachurches, and have broadcast networks spewing their venom.
- dafragsta, on 05/21/2008, -1/+6And people say religion is bad...
- altgeeky1, on 05/21/2008, -3/+19The media won't cover Hagee because Evangelical Christians have a LOT more Advertiser Influence, know more Important People, and probably Own Stock in said media networks. It's not good press to cover what "religion" says, unless it's an Angry Black Man.
The media is the big enabler here...
... if just one reporter asks McCain about Hagee, McCain will blow up and say "That's ENOUGH... next cookout of mine, you get NO BURGERS. Got it, Hot Dog Boy??". The other reporters will laugh, give the first reporter a glare, and then ask McCain if he wants them to run out for coffee or doughnuts.
McCain reminds people of that "Gold Watch" guy from Pulp Fiction, and you have to like him for it, crazy as he is. - kukurio, on 05/21/2008, -5/+1You know what's insanely ironic? At one point, Hagee actually used the phrase "Jeremiah writey" to mean "Jeremiah the Biblical author wrote..." In other words, that clip contains both Jeremiah Wright and John Hagee!
- prophet5, on 05/21/2008, -23/+7Yeah, but he didn't marry McCain, or Baptise his children....
Oh yeah, and he isn't McCain's "spiritual mentor"....- ChromeWalnut, on 05/21/2008, -7/+1Why the diggs down here? It's true.
However, either way you look at it, neither of the pastors should be brought into the political arena as actual criticizing points. All of you Obama-backers are just throwing up a double-standard with this type of mudslinging; you're also going against one of Obama's major campaign themes- stick to the issues..- VinceNoir, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1If I were on the campaign trail I'd shut religion completely out. Religion does not belong in government. America is NOT a christian nation. America is a mix of a bunch of whackjobs who somehow still just barely manage to keep it together for the most part. But for how long?
- ClosedCaption, on 05/22/2008, -1/+6And that makes it ok, right?
- ChromeWalnut, on 05/21/2008, -7/+1Why the diggs down here? It's true.
- solid12345, on 05/21/2008, -11/+1No they are both equally crazy, Wright is a black marxist and Wright is a white kooky baptist.
- dtfinch, on 05/21/2008, -0/+14You misspelled Hagee.
- Archer007, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3I read the headline, and did a double take. WHAT?? There are two possibilities here: either he thinks what he is saying is true (!) or he is doing it on purpose to stir up controversy. Either way, I wasn't voting for McCain before, and I am not going to do so now.
- elamr, on 05/22/2008, -2/+1who cares. Its religion. He's interpreting the Bible.
- grlykool, on 05/21/2008, -1/+27Wait till you hear Parsley. "WE get off on War" really who says that? Where is that in the Bible?
- arclite, on 05/21/2008, -9/+37Now, can I get an over/under on whether the MSM will pick up on this or drop it?
- AtHomeBoy2000, on 05/21/2008, -2/+19this is kind of a major statement, especially with Bush comparing Obama to the Nazt appeasers last week.
- grlykool, on 05/21/2008, -1/+21Heck the MSM didn't say anything about Bush's family's Nazi ties. That's what killed me about Bush's speech. His granddad was a Nazi collaborator!!
- Pillage, on 05/21/2008, -12/+3That makes no sense, a grandson of a Nazi cannot come out against Nazism?
- hipnerd, on 05/21/2008, -0/+12@Pillage: The grandson of a Nazi can certainly come out against Nazism. But I think it sounds hollow unless he acknowledges the Nazi roots in his own past. Bush has never acknowledged that his grandfather was a Nazi profiteer.
- grlykool, on 05/21/2008, -1/+21Heck the MSM didn't say anything about Bush's family's Nazi ties. That's what killed me about Bush's speech. His granddad was a Nazi collaborator!!
- arclite, on 05/21/2008, -2/+40Couple that with Prescott (grampy) Bush selling war material to the Nazis after our steel embargo took effect and you have a truly bizarre scene in the Knesset.
The Grandson of a Nazi-supporting traitor (yes, giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war is treason) addressing the Israeli government, and denouncing his political rivals as being the type to appease Hitler.
The mind boggles.- grlykool, on 05/21/2008, -7/+2The MCM is asleep and complicate, it makes me so upset!
- laserblazer, on 05/21/2008, -2/+9Halliburton, then under the control of Prescott Bush, supplied oil - American oil - to the Nazis as late as 1944. Halliburton was shut down after WW2 under the 'Trading With the Enemy Act', only to resume business activities shortly thereafter.
Richard Cheney was a Halliburton chief and his President is the grandson of a Nazi financier.
The Nazis didn't lose. They implemented a plan to inject traitors into the U.S. government - and it worked.- ChristianMagic, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Sorry, but Hitler's plan involved taking over Europe while they were still alive and getting Germans 'living space', not having the possibility of taking over a government 60 years later when he could not reap the benefits.
- ,,|,_, on 05/21/2008, -1/+6An over-under is a wager on whether or not the combined goal, point, run, sum, etc total of an event will be over or under what the oddsmaker sets it at before the event.
This is either a Yes they do pick it up or No they don't pick it up thing so technically there cannot be an over-under.
...but you're right. They won't touch it with a ten foot pole.- laserblazer, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2... because they are in cahoots with these para-Nazi forces. The MSM of today would make Herr Goebbels smile.
- Vet4Peace, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Are you kidding? No way are they gonna touch this....the folks who own the media are Republicans.
- grenabler, on 05/22/2008, -0/+0with how far the talking heads of the traditional (NOT mainstream) media got stuck up john mccain's ass at his bbq
don't hold your breath
- AtHomeBoy2000, on 05/21/2008, -2/+19this is kind of a major statement, especially with Bush comparing Obama to the Nazt appeasers last week.
- AtHomeBoy2000, on 05/21/2008, -33/+73The God I know and worship wants to convert the Jews to follow Christ, not purge them from the earth in concentration camps.
- helouise, on 05/21/2008, -2/+24Hagee believes Jews must convert or die.
Oh, and he thinks anti-semitism is the Jews own fault. They were cursed because once they worshipped false idols. So now they get what they deserve.
Not much room for any love in Hagee's world. Didn't Jesus say something about love, or am I mistaken- TheZorch, on 05/21/2008, -0/+14People like Hagee are false prophets and liars, they claim to know the word of God but in the end they twist it so it supports their own agenda.
- ElAssoWipo, on 05/21/2008, -3/+10lol, as opposed to the ones who "actually" know what God wants?
- Esstee, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5It would seem that God stated what he wants.
It was not this quite obviously.
- Berkana, on 05/21/2008, -7/+5Where does Hagee say "the Jews must convert or die"? (Clue: nowhere.) He is a major proponent of Israel and the defense of Israel; I don't think he believes in forced conversion.
Hagee believes that the Jews must eventually convert or they will die by some act of God. There's a big difference between that and what you claim he said.
* Disclaimer to those who would burry me for having anything to say in defense of Hagee: I find Hagee to be very distasteful, and detest political Christianity. But lying about someone you don't like is not acceptable. *- ElAssoWipo, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2You're right and wrong at the same time.
He's a christian zionist.
He's all for Israel because he thinks a war in Israel will make jesus come back. It's why the world gave jews Israel in the first place. The powers that be are still christian zionists.
http://www.christianzionism.org/article/LaGrange01 ...
- ElAssoWipo, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2You're right and wrong at the same time.
- TheZorch, on 05/21/2008, -0/+14People like Hagee are false prophets and liars, they claim to know the word of God but in the end they twist it so it supports their own agenda.
- Berkana, on 05/21/2008, -11/+14True, but it would be dishonest if you did not admit the following:
The Bible has God saying that he would preserve the Jewish people on account of his covenant with their forefathers, AND saying that he would bring horrors and enemies upon them for disobedience. I don't like John Hagee nor John McCain, but when it comes to what the prophecies say, it would not be honest to ignore the established pattern. The Old Testament (Jewish scripture, mind you) says that God brought the Babylonians upon the Israelites as punishment, and the Assyrians, and the Assyrians were at least as bad as the Nazis.
Here's one passage for you in case you're not to familiar:
Jeremiah 16:10-18 [This is JEWISH SCRIPTURE, from the Old Testament, not some thing Christians came up with. This is the passage Hagee was quoting.]
10 "When you tell these people all this and they ask you, 'Why has the LORD decreed such a great disaster against us? What wrong have we done? What sin have we committed against the LORD our God?' 11 then say to them, 'It is because your fathers forsook me,' declares the LORD, 'and followed other gods and served and worshiped them. They forsook me and did not keep my law. 12 But you have behaved more wickedly than your fathers. See how each of you is following the stubbornness of his evil heart instead of obeying me. 13 So I will throw you out of this land into a land neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you will serve other gods day and night, for I will show you no favor.'
14 "However, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when men will no longer say, 'As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,' 15 but they will say, 'As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.' For I will restore them to the land I gave their forefathers. [This was written long before the second exile in 138 A.D.]
16 "But now I will send for many fishermen," declares the LORD, "and they will catch them. After that I will send for many hunters, and they will hunt them down on every mountain and hill and from the crevices of the rocks. 17 My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from me, nor is their sin concealed from my eyes. 18 I will repay them double for their wickedness and their sin, because they have defiled my land with the lifeless forms of their vile images and have filled my inheritance with their detestable idols."
Now, let me reiterate: I don't like Hagee, but theologically speaking, he is being consistent with Jewish scripture. It doesn't say "Hitler was doing the will of God" in so many words, but you've got to admit that it's not hard to see the inference. In the Old Testament, God regularly used people whom he didn't like, who did evil things, to punish people he had a covenant with whom he held to a higher standard.- Esstee, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5I agree, the old testament was a record of a specific timeline. God had an agenda and it would be fulfilled come hell of high water(lol). However... just as stated, the old testament and covenants were concluded when the promised seed was delivered and thus a new set of laws were in place.
Maybe Hitler didn't have access to the new testament? Poor guy...- Berkana, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Even with the New Covenant in place, the prophecies about Israel were not all fulfilled. Isaiah wrote this before even the first exile took place:
[About a time after the Messiah has come:]
Isaiah 11:11-14
11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand *a second time* to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.
12 He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.
13 Ephraim's jealousy will vanish,
and Judah's enemies will be cut off;
Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah,
nor Judah hostile toward Ephraim.
14 They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia to the west;
together they will plunder the people to the east.
They will lay hands on Edom and Moab,
and the Ammonites will be subject to them.
__________________________
Isaiah wrote that the Israelites would be gathered out of exile a "second time" even before the first exile had happened. The Jews were exiled a second time from Judea when the Romans crushed the Bar Kochba rebellion and took them into Europe as slaves, drove the rest into exile everywhere else, and renamed the land "Palestina" (after the Philistines); their being gathered back into Judea during the establishment of the modern state of Israel fulfilled verse 14 of the above prophecy. (This does NOT mean they didn't do horrible things to the arabs living in the land, nor that they are not at fault for their bad treatment of the Palestinians; this just means what God says will come to pass does come to pass.)
- Berkana, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Even with the New Covenant in place, the prophecies about Israel were not all fulfilled. Isaiah wrote this before even the first exile took place:
- jwigum, on 05/21/2008, -3/+4I agree. It's been spun pretty hard by the submitter to make a reader think "Hagee things Hitler was a good guy!"... But that's not what he's saying. Hagee is doing exactly what you pointed out, referencing Old Testament prophecy with present day events.
- Terr01, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5I dugg you up for having a consistent argument with sources, but this really just leads into a larger theological problem with certain Christian denominations:
"The Old Testament is nullified and superceded by Jesus' new covenant... Except here... And not there... Yes there... But not that one..."
This has come up before in terms of things like Slavery & Shellfish vs. Homosexuality.- Berkana, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3The "theological problem" you point out is your misunderstanding, not an actual problem. Let me break it down for you:
* Prophecies from the old testament are still valid, because it is something God told about the future. In Deuteronomy 18, the standard given for a genuine prophet is that all of his prophecies come true period. Nothing nullifies a prophecy; if God says it will come to pass, it will come to pass.
However, with regards to the laws given in the Old Testament:
* Moral principles do not get "nullified", including sexual morality; right and wrong are not overturned by the New Testament, and are re-affirmed in the New Testament.
* Laws governing religious rites have been fulfilled and do not apply in the New Covenant/New Testament, in part because they cannot be; a third of the laws pertain to rituals at the Temple carried out by levite priests. Yet before Jesus went to be crucified, he foretold that the Temple would be destroyed, and 40 years later, it was, making it impossible to continue the atonement sacrifices etc.
* Laws given to ancient Israel's civil government do not apply, because Israel ceased to exist for most of the history of the New Covenant, and certainly do not apply to modern Israel, since the civil law was given to govern ancient Israel as a theocracy; none of these governing structures exist anymore, nor could they be practically re-instated.
It is not a matter of picking and choosing things out of the Old Testament; some aspects of the Old Testament are clearly out of covenant in the New Covenant (anything involving levite priests and the Temple), unconditional prophecies never get overturned (conditional prophecies are usually contingent on repentance), and the moral principles are re-affirmed. - geomon, on 05/21/2008, -2/+4@Berkana
"The "theological problem" you point out is your misunderstanding, not an actual problem."
Yeah, I get that a lot. That misunderstanding usually stems from a person who has one particular interpretation of the Bible disagreeing with another person's interpretation of the Bible. Since I have no dog in this fight, you will have to forgive me for disbelieving both of you. I think both of you are wrong.
"Prophecies from the old testament are still valid, because it is something God told about the future."
No, the Bible has predicted NOTHING. What people do with the Bible is the same thing they do with Nostradamus's quatrains: reinterpret current events in the past writings. NO ONE has made a prediction of any precision about a future event that had any accuracy based on the Bible or Nostradamus's quatrains.
"Nothing nullifies a prophecy; if God says it will come to pass, it will come to pass."
Fine. Tell me what is going to happen, specifically, at a point in the future based on a passage in the Bible. Give me a date and a time.
That is a prophecy - it is a prediction.
As for the idea that God used the Nazis to find all the Jews according to some obscure passage in the Bible and bring them back to the Promised Land, well, it looks like the Old Fart isn't quite as infallible as his believers would like to think. He missed quite a few based on genetic information, not some 5,000 year old book that has consistently shown itself to be completely inaccurate as a science text or predictor of the future.
Science rules; superstition drools:
http://www.abrahamschildren.net/ - Terr01, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4@berkana:
So which of those *human-made* heuristics allow people to violate Leviticus for Shellfish and ignore it's permission of Slavery, while simultaneously using it as support for anti-Homosexuality? - Esstee, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3@No, the Bible has predicted NOTHING. What people do with the Bible is the same thing they do with Nostradamus's quatrains: reinterpret current events in the past writings. NO ONE has made a prediction of any precision about a future event that had any accuracy based on the Bible or Nostradamus's quatrains.
Out of a thousand predictions from Nostradamus, only a small number ever received fulfillment. However, of those few even, many were claimed to be forgeries by interpreters including that of his own death. - It is interesting also that Nostradamus touched on numerous Bible matters in his wittings as he confessed that his works were backed by God all the while standing in conflict with Gods words as well.
Having said that, it is still possible to differentiate between true prophets and false prophets with a few basic criteria:
Bible prophets always spoke in the name of God.
The things they foretold would have to come true without exception.
Their prophesying had to be in harmony with God’s word and commandments.
Another area that Nostradamus failed at was that he dabbled in magic, occult and astrology as part of his work. This stood in opposition to Mose's wittings stating"...there should not be found in you(God) anyone who uses divination, practicer's of magic, omens or sorcerers... etc etc".
Thing of it is real prophets never foretold things to satisfying human curiosity alone. Since predictions were all directly attributed to God’s will, purpose and standards. And since the primary purpose of bible prophets were to advocate his moral standards, it was not necessary to wait for years before one could determine whether the prophet was true or false.
Nostradamus wrote and sold books to make money. He was described as a man with the rewards of a king and yet he benefited none other than himself in the process. Which was clearly not a prophet in the Hebrew sense of the word.
*** Just a little brush-up on Nostradamus while on the topic. - Berkana, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3@geomon:
"No, the Bible has predicted NOTHING. What people do with the Bible is the same thing they do with Nostradamus's quatrains: reinterpret current events in the past writings. NO ONE has made a prediction of any precision about a future event that had any accuracy based on the Bible or Nostradamus's quatrains."
Absolutely not; by claiming this, you only demonstrate that you know nothing about Biblical prophecy. The Bible predicts in many verses written long before the event that Israel would be exiled a second time out of Judea, and that they would be gathered back to Judea in no uncertain terms. For a over thousand years, Israel was an impossibility, and people pointed this out as their "proof" that the Bible's prophecies were bunk, but in 1948, Israel came back into existence as a nation state.
If you want a few very specific prophecies, here's a few you may have heard of:
* Israel will rebuild their temple in spite of the Dome of the Rock sitting on the Temple Mount.
* The Antichrist: There will be a ruler who makes a peace covenant between Israelis and the Arabs with a seven year term, but will violate the covenant half way through. He will enter the Temple and claim to be devine and will perform miracles and deceive many to follow after him; he will impose a mark upon all, without which they will not be able to buy nor sell. He will have a false-prophet side-kick who will make people worship him. Two "witnesses" will fight against the Antichrist, but will be killed, and the entire world will see this. They will call down fire from the skies, etc.
* There will be a massive battle at the fields of Har Meggido ("Armageddon") where armies from nations surrounding Israel will try to destroy it.
* Jesus will come back and kick everyone's ass.
These are not vague predictions like Nostradamus' quatrains; these are specific events that are prophecied.
No specific time is given in the prophecy, just that it will happen after Israel has been restored as a nation state. The nation state of Israel has already come to pass, along with over two thirds of the prophecies in the Bible. Expect the remaining third to come to pass as well. - zmjone2992, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Note that all of this Biblical "prophecy" (excluding revelation) had already happened during the 1st century AD. Israel's creation imo was a self-fulfilling prophecy. People that want to bring about the end-times are not a modern phenomena after all.
- Berkana, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3The "theological problem" you point out is your misunderstanding, not an actual problem. Let me break it down for you:
- VitriolAndAngst, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2Reading the convoluted and detailed subtleties you pull from the holy scriptures, I can only say; Thank God I don't believe in the bible.
- bradysdaman, on 05/21/2008, -7/+1I dugg you down for being far too long winded...buried
- shig, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Hebrews, Chapter 8:
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
If he wants to be consistent with Jewish scripture he should be a Jew, and not a false prophet.
- Esstee, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5I agree, the old testament was a record of a specific timeline. God had an agenda and it would be fulfilled come hell of high water(lol). However... just as stated, the old testament and covenants were concluded when the promised seed was delivered and thus a new set of laws were in place.
- zmjone2992, on 05/21/2008, -4/+20You KNOW God?
- ElAssoWipo, on 05/21/2008, -5/+6Maybe his upstairs neighbor answers his prayers for laughs.
- Esstee, on 05/21/2008, -2/+11Apparently... if you ask to get to know him(sincerely), you will come to know him.
Can't speak for everyone but this seems to be some sort of divine promise or something.- Berkana, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Jeremiah 29:11-14
11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares YHWH, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 *You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you," declares YHWH*, "and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you," declares YHWH, "and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile." - sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -4/+3Why doesn't God heal amputees?
- zmjone2992, on 05/22/2008, -2/+2Take it from an ex-missionary. It is a ***** promise.
- Berkana, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Jeremiah 29:11-14
- BaronVonZ, on 05/21/2008, -5/+11Guys, its a book... and not even a very interesting one at that.
- BlacklabelSAR, on 05/21/2008, -2/+11Well I hang with God on a regular basis. We have a few beers and he goes on and on about exactly who is and is not worshipping him. And I say, "dude (I call him dude) get some self-esteem. You don't need to be worshipped to be cool. Control freaks are not popular" and then he usually says something like "Yeah I know, but sometimes I just need to smite someone".
And I'm all like "behavior mod dude, behavior mod". - Subliminational, on 05/22/2008, -3/+3God is a lobster.
A never ending gob slob rock mobster.
Saw that in a bathroom and kind of enjoyed it. - EthylAdded, on 05/23/2008, -0/+2"The God I know and worship wants to convert the Jews to follow Christ, not purge them from the earth in concentration camps."
You misrepresent Hagee. As a Christian, you believe that GOD IS IN CONTROL. You believe that nothing happens without God allowing it to happen. Therefore it follows that Hitler's actions were allowed by God for some greater purpose. That's what Hagee is saying. Get off your high horse and embrace your Christian brother.
- helouise, on 05/21/2008, -2/+24Hagee believes Jews must convert or die.
- IbbyIbby, on 05/21/2008, -12/+133For all the people who think Obama will have trouble with the Jewish vote , good luck McCain.
- bmdubya, on 05/21/2008, -1/+25This won't impact the Jewish vote for McCain because the MSM won't pick this up. And we all know that the MSM controls who this country votes for.
- frontalpha, on 05/21/2008, -9/+2Bull crap. McCain appeals to many ethnic groups and religions. And who cares what MSM says anyway?
- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5"Elderly conservative bigots" is all one group- you can't claim them individually, sorry.
- plimpton777, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2The Neocons are backing McCain through and through--it's their best chance to invade Iran. They know McCain is courting the wacko religious right as political necessity, and they will not make a big deal of this in the mainstream media (whoever owns and controls them...).
- frontalpha, on 05/21/2008, -9/+2Bull crap. McCain appeals to many ethnic groups and religions. And who cares what MSM says anyway?
- akamurph, on 05/21/2008, -12/+6Give me a break... this guy 'endorsed' McCain, big deal! He didn't go to his sermons for 20 years.
- cquinnd, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3This repeated meme would be valid only with proof that all the sermons over the course of 20 years were equally inflammatory. Hagee's ministry (and book series) is far more consistent in that measure.
- MKSinSA, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2John McCain SOUGHT his endorsement. For this campaign. Huge difference. His judgement says this guy is a great asset to me NOW. Ooops
- ElAssoWipo, on 05/21/2008, -6/+9I'm jewish and I don't see how this affects McCain.
I think McCain is probably the worst possible candidate, but he is a very strong Israel supporter (and I'm not). And Obama is the least pro-Israel candidate of the two. Still pro-Israel, but not as "anything goes" as McCain on this subject.
Obama supporters are trying to equate this to Obama's Wright affiliation, maybe as payback, but the two situations are completely different.
Obama said in his book that he attended Wright's church every sunday for 20 years, that he inspired him to become the man he is today, that he's a close personnal friend, and that he could no more denounce him than his white grandmother (that was in a speech, after Wright's comments were televised). Precisely 14 days after that speech, he denounced Wright, said he hardly knew the man and didn't believe in anything he said.
McCain got endorsed by Hagee because one of the people on his staff who is basically hired to seek endorsements asked Hagee for his endorsement. A week later:
"Well, obviously I repudiate any comments that are anti-semetic or anti-Catholic, racist, any other. And I condemn them and I condemn those words that Pastor Hagee apparently…that Pastor Hagee wrote."
He never attended his church. Hagee never worked with or for McCain. They are not friends. It's just some guy that endorsed him.
I don't think the jewish community will be so easily fooled. Especially the pro-Israel crowd.- KingWilson, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2THANK YOU and excellent comment....I don't have the energy to write something like that
- Labourer, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Very sensible comments , course you gonna get dug down for not being an obama sheep.
- MKSinSA, on 05/22/2008, -1/+0A political endorsement is essentially the currency of a campaign. Some are official, others are not. An unofficial endorsement is nothing more than a compliment. An official one is traded on the floor of politics. Unlike getting praise from the likes of David Duke or Farrakhan, Hagee's selection was an official part of the presidential campaign. Not of a personal nature, but of a political one. Therein lies the greatest difference.
John McCain's lack of good, political judgement lies on several planes here: a) failure to vet an official endorser, b) failure to vet his staffer and c) failure to use good judgement when selecting from among the very people he once called "agents of intolerance." Knowing this of these people, he still sought this particular endorsement.
You are right about one thing - it's not the same. It's worse.- ElAssoWipo, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1He didn't sought anything, one of his staffers did.
a) failure to vet an official endorser, b) failure to vet his staffer
He did that a month ago.
"c) failure to use good judgement when selecting from among the very people he once called "agents of intolerance."
He didn't select anything. Hagee was a public figure that had already endorsed McCain but not publicly (at his church), so the staffer called him up.
- ElAssoWipo, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1He didn't sought anything, one of his staffers did.
- Terr01, on 05/21/2008, -4/+5The American Jewish vote is very strongly Democratic anyway.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JP ...
(Clearly, most of American Jews are actually anti-semitic, because they're voting for the evil Democrats :P ) - GansGans, on 05/21/2008, -5/+3I endured countless sermons by John Hagee as a child, and though he's a bigot and a fool, he is definitely not an antisemite. He is the founder of Christians United for Israel. In his sermons, he always refers to the Jews as God's chosen people and he believes that Israel and the Jewish people should be protected no matter the cost. I despise his beliefs because he discounts the cost of human lives, mainly Palestinian lives, when he defends Israel's actions. But the point is that though he's an idiot, he's not an antisemite, and I do not think he will discourage Jews who are considering voting for McCain.
- cquinnd, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2The perception I gathered was that Hagee favors the Jewish state as a precusor to the end times, more than as favoring the continued existence of a peaceful resolution to middle eastern conflicts.
Not antisemitic, but not exactly buddy-buddy either. - pintomp3, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1he's pro-israel, not pro-jewish. he views jews as a means to an end (literally). he wants them to have all the land promised in the bible so that the rapture will happen. he wants them to die in the rapture if they don't accept jesus as their savior. it's part of his end-times prophecy.
- GansGans, on 05/22/2008, -1/+1Actually, you're wrong. He's pro-Israel and pro-Jewish. I had to attend his despicable sermons for years, and so I know what he believes. He believes in a dual-covenant with God. That is, Christians and Jews have separate covenants. According to his belief, the Jewish people are not required to accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior in order to receive salvation. He does not hope they will die in the rapture. He essentially believes that they have a free-pass into heaven. I think his beliefs are crazy, but once again the point is that he's not simply pro-Israel. He is pro-Jewish, too.
- cquinnd, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2The perception I gathered was that Hagee favors the Jewish state as a precusor to the end times, more than as favoring the continued existence of a peaceful resolution to middle eastern conflicts.
- Distracto, on 05/22/2008, -1/+0 So now we have Israel negotiating with Syria over the Golan Heights immediately after Bush's visit with his reference to Hitler and remarks about not talking to nations who sponsor terrorists. Israel could care less what this lame duck U.S. President thinks. And Israel knows what Hagee's all about as well. They've always known. But better to suffer a fool and his followers if it keeps the arms and the cash flowing than to miss out. Who doesn't know that the end vision of evangelicals is another holocaust? Its an ugly, childish fantasy and who cares? Israel is a grown up nation living in a grown up neighborhood and all the players there know who breathes fire and who just blows hard. Jordan, Turkey, Syria, the Kurds; they're all talking and dealing with each other. Who cares what some pampered American red neck and his middle aged RV driving followers actually believe? Just show up at their rallies, smile and cash the checks. Meanwhile India is playing gracious host to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad over a proposed gas pipeline. Hezbollah and the 'pro-western' ruling party of Lebanon have struck a deal such that Hezbollah has veto power in the Lebanese congress. Russia and China are extending their influence around the world. Thats right folks, thanks to the neo conservative 'revolution' most other nations are beginning to notice that its better to keep the U.S. out of the room than in it. And it just so happens that Bush and company is accommodating them. "I don't want to talk and be an Appeaser" he says. "Right, no problem there pal." is what the rest of the world is saying.
We need to get these neo conservative, anti-talking, U.N. hating, torture loving, pre-emptive war making, right wing Christian shoot yourself in the foot idiots out of our government and we need to keep them out. And that includes John McCain.
- bmdubya, on 05/21/2008, -1/+25This won't impact the Jewish vote for McCain because the MSM won't pick this up. And we all know that the MSM controls who this country votes for.
- ChristPissed, on 05/21/2008, -16/+135Its OK to say nasty religious ***** if you're a white republican, at least according to the MSM perception management.
- theocracylooms, on 05/21/2008, -6/+39Hagee and his crew have actually done worse things....
Coming soon, to a YouTube near you. - ninjaface, on 05/21/2008, -14/+96Where is the rabid media converage? Where are all the pundits who are calling for McCain to answer for his pastor's actions? Obama was just about crucified for what his pastor said, and it pales in comparison to this nazi loving freak.
- RobN, on 05/21/2008, -17/+15HIS pastor? See, this is where Obama's supporters show their stupidity. If McCain had attended this guy's church for 20 years, had called him his mentor and the person who brought him to his faith, or had even just known the guy for a long time, then this would be HUGE news. But not one of those things is true about McCain's relationship to this pastor (while they're ALL true about Obama's relationship to Wright). McCain barely knew of the guy, his staff sought and obtained his endorsement, then McCain found out how nutty he was. McCain didn't take a month to say this guy's a nut, either.
This is much closer to Hamas endorsing Obama, frankly -- sure there's some legitimate questions about why someone like Hagee or why a group like Hamas would endorse a candidate, but you can't blame the candidate for the beliefs of everyone who might endorse them. That's just stupid.- headzoo, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3I disagree with some of the things you said. You're right: This is closer to the Hamas endorsement for Obama, but even that has been covered in the media quite a bit. I keep hearing it being used as a talking point for GOP puppets in the media.
At the end of the day, the media is all about sensationalism. They're all over any story that will boost ratings no matter how weak the stories are. So it doesn't make any sense that they wouldn't cover the Hagee & McCain connection. No matter how weak that connection is.- bradysdaman, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1It does make sense though, what battle is McCain in right now.....??????? He isn't in one, trust me when I tell you the mainstream LIBERAL LEFTIST media will take this and run when the time is right...October
- headzoo, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3I disagree with some of the things you said. You're right: This is closer to the Hamas endorsement for Obama, but even that has been covered in the media quite a bit. I keep hearing it being used as a talking point for GOP puppets in the media.
- Mabx86, on 05/21/2008, -7/+18This is a totally different situation, McCain does not look onto Hagee as a leader like Obama did to Rev. Wright.
- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6For someone who Obama "looks onto as a leader", Wright was certainly kicked out fast enough when he became an ass. McCain knew all about Hagee's views and STILL courted him for political support.
And, for the record, Hagee's religious and political beliefs are an order of magnitude worse than Wright's. The worst thing Wright said was that he thought AIDS was created by whites... Hagee wants an entire race exterminated and really wants the Apocalypse to happen in his lifetime.- stgeo, on 05/21/2008, -4/+0Id love for the apocalypse to happen in my lifetime that way I wouldn't have to wait to be judged
- twomeyw23334, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1"Wright was certainly kicked out fast enough when he became an ass.."
Thats because he was working for Obama's spiritual advisory committee. Hagee isn't working on McCain's compaign so he doesn't have to kick him out. The relationship is completely different and there is no way you can equivalize it.
He didn't just "become an ass" either, he always had been one, the general public just found out about it. Someone who sat in front of the guy for 20 years should have already known that.
- Garlik, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1It's different but I'm sure that even if Obama didn't call Wright his mentor, the media would be all over him
- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6For someone who Obama "looks onto as a leader", Wright was certainly kicked out fast enough when he became an ass. McCain knew all about Hagee's views and STILL courted him for political support.
- frontalpha, on 05/21/2008, -2/+4That's because Hagee doesn't run his mouth like it's going out of style. Wright is a blow hard that wants power and influences, not salvation and endorsement to Obama
- edwartica, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Uhhhh....ever hear Hagee? Let's just say he makes Wright look like an introvert at times.
- phrenzy, on 05/21/2008, -5/+11Nice try Republicans. There's one little problem. McCain actively SEEKED and WELCOMED this guy's endorsement. That is the difference. Going to a pastor for a long time, you come to see him as family - flaws and all. You don't feel that you can just tell the person that married you and your wife to "piss off" because he believes some crazy ***** and you are running for office.
In the context of political endorsements, however, it is all PRE-CALCULATED. When McCain stood up there with Hagee he knew exactly what he was doing (and why).
Don't act like Hagee just came out of nowhere and endorsed John McCain from his religious nut bunker. McCain WANTED it.
Last time I checked, I didn't see Obama doing any press conferences with Hamas.
Waiting for feeble Republican attempt at an answer...- wettap, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1Buried for stupidity and the complete disregard for the proper use of the English language. (SEEKED) v. sought.
Buried also for hyperbole and inaccuracy. It is a feeble attempt to attach a nag to the McCain wagon. All of the Obama Kool-aid drinkers know that Hagee is not McCain's "anything". You will have to try harder- akatsuki, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2You failed to address his point - McCain solicited the endorsement of Hagee. I don't think that Obama sought the endorsement of Hamas.
- phrenzy, on 05/21/2008, -1/+0It's become obvious that the criticism of grammar is the last refuge of those who have no argument.
I'll ask you once more. Why did McCain consciously seek, welcome and publicly accept Hagee's endorsement?
I fully expect some quip about grammar or spelling to follow as is typical of the Republican arguments that have been made this year.
- bradysdaman, on 05/22/2008, -1/+0I don't see the problem with a POLITICIAN seeking the endorsement of different groups. I don't think anyone in here disagrees that Hagee is a crazy radical christian. There are hundreds of thousands of people that care about his endorsement nonetheless. McCain has far more to gain through that endorsement than to lose. He gets the endorsement and then repudiates what the man says concerning Jews or whomever, bingo bango bongo he has a ton of votes. At the end of the day all of these people are politicians and we need to recognize that we don't even know everything that our own friends say, nvm what some very old religious zealot has said throughout his career. McCain doesn't know the guy like Obama knows Wright. End of discussion.
- wettap, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1Buried for stupidity and the complete disregard for the proper use of the English language. (SEEKED) v. sought.
- stgeo, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1What type of terrible racist 'family' is obama in to listen to that guy for 20 years.
- RobN, on 05/21/2008, -17/+15HIS pastor? See, this is where Obama's supporters show their stupidity. If McCain had attended this guy's church for 20 years, had called him his mentor and the person who brought him to his faith, or had even just known the guy for a long time, then this would be HUGE news. But not one of those things is true about McCain's relationship to this pastor (while they're ALL true about Obama's relationship to Wright). McCain barely knew of the guy, his staff sought and obtained his endorsement, then McCain found out how nutty he was. McCain didn't take a month to say this guy's a nut, either.
- soot, on 05/21/2008, -25/+82Hello! This isn't an issue for the following reasons:
Hagee is not Rev. Wright.
Hagee is not Obama"s pastor.
Hagee is not black.
Finally, Hagee cannot be connected to Obama in any way.
Perhaps if there is a picture of Hagee having a cup of coffee with Obama, than maybe.
/sarcasm- bmdubya, on 05/21/2008, -4/+35Take away the /sarcasm and you have a true statement.
- GeauxLSU, on 05/21/2008, -11/+5You left out one more....Mccain never said he was his "Spiritual Adviser".
Wright is wrong and Obama should have left him long ago!- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4hagee isn't mccain's spiritual adviser, rod parsley is:
http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/200 ... - phrenzy, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3McCain sought his endorsement and appeared at a press conference to accept it. Please explain.
- scamper22, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2how about Wright's views are okay with me. I don't agree with them all, but I know where he's coming from. I don't consider him a radical. I find him rather entertaining actually. Apart from his claim of AIDS being spread by the government, which is not that radical a view in certain communities, most of what he said could be said has been stated in a less 'agressive' tone many other places.
Obama should have stuck by him when the Sh*t hit the fan OR
Obama should have been smart enough to never get involved with this man in first place. You don't do that if you have political ambitions.
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4hagee isn't mccain's spiritual adviser, rod parsley is:
- MadKennyP, on 05/21/2008, -0/+16In February, McCain stated that Hagee "supports what I stand for and believe in."
- schrankage, on 05/21/2008, -0/+6You forgot, Hagee supports the Zionist agenda, which has for too long held American foreign policy in it's clutches.
- grlykool, on 05/21/2008, -7/+49But he's not a scary black man! I don't like Parsley either, that "WE get off on war" quote is just scary. I've been to his church to btw. I've been to Hagee's church too, sadly this is something that a lot of ppl buy into. A lot of these preaches sell out for money.
- ErikHarrison, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3The term "get off" is in relation to SEX. Saying that is essentailly screaming that we like to blow our wads on our enemies faces.
What kind of preacher uses that wording? Oh, one who is a sellout. Does that mean he cares about money more than the Word of God? WOW. This is another reason why I hate preachers such as he. What happened to our all loving God? - Archer007, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Megachurches corrupt because power corrupts.
- ErikHarrison, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3The term "get off" is in relation to SEX. Saying that is essentailly screaming that we like to blow our wads on our enemies faces.
- whatthefu, on 05/21/2008, -9/+62To clarify: Hagee says Hitler was fulfilling God's will in getting the Jews back to Israel. It's still despicable, but from the title I thought it meant Hagee said Hitler was fulfilling God's will of trying to wipe out Judaism.
- ErikHarrison, on 05/21/2008, -7/+4Well, when you reference Hitler in that manner, aren't you saying that you condone his actions and how he tried to accomplish that feat? Sounds pretty much that way, and even more so to people that are not intelligent enough to distinguish the difference. So, in short, you are right, but wrong also.
- helouise, on 05/21/2008, -7/+11He also said that Israel is the only place Jews should live (according to God)
If they don't live there, then they basically deserve to die.
That's why Hitler was doing God's will.
This theology justifies genocide.- theocracylooms, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2Yes, exactly.
- firewallender, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1That's ridiculous... I don't see how you pull that out of the clip. It sounds like you're stretching to translate it into the worst possible meaning.
- theocracylooms, on 05/21/2008, -0/+11That's part of the theological scheme too, now that you mention it:
In Hagee's theological end-times scheme, all Jews who don't convert to Christian die. Thus, Judaism vanishes from the Earth.- Yusami, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Any first year theology major can tell you that in Revelations (last book of the Christian Bible) that anyone left after the rapture that don't convert die and go to hell or survive the end times and are judged, thus EVERY belief and religion vanishes from earth.
Really, brush up on your materials before you make such a post.- cquinnd, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Maybe Hagee should brush up on his, since I'm sure he believes at least one religion will still remain after the rapture.
And I don't mean all the CoS members left to shepherd the free thetans.
- cquinnd, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Maybe Hagee should brush up on his, since I'm sure he believes at least one religion will still remain after the rapture.
- Yusami, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Any first year theology major can tell you that in Revelations (last book of the Christian Bible) that anyone left after the rapture that don't convert die and go to hell or survive the end times and are judged, thus EVERY belief and religion vanishes from earth.
- klineja, on 05/21/2008, -3/+4i agree, the title is misleading.
- diggrnumber1, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2i don't think you can say either one is more despicable. he has proclaimed his support for the holocaust.
- edwartica, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Perhaps Hagee could of worded things differently, like saying that despite Hitler's evil deeds, God still used Hitler to bring back the nation of Israel, or something like that.
Honestly, the teaching in most Christian churches is that God uses all things for his Glory.
- zephyear, on 05/21/2008, -4/+25joe liebermann officialy counted out as vp
- Pillage, on 05/21/2008, -0/+10I always figured McCain would pick a Mexican or a women, or a Mexican women.... in a wheelchair.
- solid12345, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1a Mexican woman in a wheelchair ready to give birth across this side of the border
- kc23266, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4but but...lieberman is a TRUE LOYAL Democrat!!
/sarcasm
- Pillage, on 05/21/2008, -0/+10I always figured McCain would pick a Mexican or a women, or a Mexican women.... in a wheelchair.
- jeanine22, on 05/21/2008, -16/+16bomb Iran John McCain is one scandal away from oblivion...
enter president Ron Paul who unlike Obama will smash the military industrial complex and "federal" reserve system central bank- jezsik, on 05/21/2008, -4/+4Except that he'll get no support from congress or the senate.
- voodoomurphy, on 05/21/2008, -10/+2So rather than the guy with the racist priest backer is better than the anti-semite bigot with the 20 year history of a radially hate filled news letter.
YEAH!!! Let's go with that.- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1No matter how you try to spin it, Hagee will always be worse than Wright.
Which one wants to commit genocide? Which one prays for the end of the world? - sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Yeah, we need a neo-nazi leader to unite the American people against the Reptilian threat. Ron Paul 08!
- snassiri, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0Ron Paul's platform is the only one that is truly non-racial because he sees people as individuals and not as members of groups like Dems do. The Dems create institutional racism in their attempts to eliminate it. It shows the failure of government and compulsory collectivism.
Keep buying into those sound bites though. They're oh-so-good at helping you decide what to believe- greenm1981, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Please provide an example of Dem created "institutionalized racism."
- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1No matter how you try to spin it, Hagee will always be worse than Wright.
- kc23266, on 05/21/2008, -1/+7RON PAUL
- solid12345, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2MATT DAMON!
- Max94520, on 05/21/2008, -9/+18Hagee and John McCainsane are a perfect couple. I'm so happy they found each other.
- Lazydriver, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3John McCunt has a better sound.
- rentmitchum, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1John McCrap! HAW HAW HAW!
- jwarcd, on 05/21/2008, -5/+15This guy has followers? Sheesh.. We're in trouble...
- postalblowfish7, on 05/21/2008, -7/+15the MSM won't care. they only like video.
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1obama's "elitist" comments weren't on video. there are plenty of hagee sermons on video though.
- tomsoppe, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2True. They only like video? No, they only like Republicans.
- bradysdaman, on 05/22/2008, -0/+0what planet do you live on that tells you that the MSM favors republicans. I'll tell you right now they love democrats. Hagee will come up at the right time. Just wait.
- tomsoppe, on 05/21/2008, -11/+4Annoy the media. Talk about their beloved Saint McCain's scary minister instead of swiftboating Obama.
- UTKEngineer, on 05/21/2008, -11/+7HE'S NOT MCCAIN'S MINISTER!!!
THIS is the difference between the Wright fiasco and Hagee.- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6You're right- he's not McCain's minister.
He's just a powerful political figure who really wants the apocalypse and who hates Jews, who McCain sought political support from. - ggrzw, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2You totally right. Wright was Obama's minister, they had a personal and spiritual relationship that doesn't imply endorsement of Wright's beliefs. McCain said he was happy have Hagee's endorsement. McCain is a lot worse in all of this.
- sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3The fact that a guy who is actively seeking to expedite the end of days, is also a McCain supporter, isn't all that surprising.
- UTKEngineer, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1First off, it's impossible for anyone to expedite the end of days. Perhaps you meant hasten their arrival? Also impossible. Everything happens on God's time line.
But, every Christian is longing for the arrival of the end of days, it means we get to go straight to heave to be with our Lord and loved ones.
- UTKEngineer, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1First off, it's impossible for anyone to expedite the end of days. Perhaps you meant hasten their arrival? Also impossible. Everything happens on God's time line.
- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6You're right- he's not McCain's minister.
- tomsoppe, on 05/21/2008, -5/+1Yeah, so I'm sure the MSM is ignoring for this principled reason. And if McCain had gone to his church I'm sure they'd be just as willing to swift boat him. Right after they go to his barbeque and play their commercials from car and oil company sponsors who want him to win.
Whose minister is whose is hairsplitting compared to the obvious and overarching media bias that we see every election. McCain appears with this guy and is proud of him.
- UTKEngineer, on 05/21/2008, -11/+7HE'S NOT MCCAIN'S MINISTER!!!
- iAlex, on 05/21/2008, -7/+15Read "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler" by Antony C. Sutton to see WHO really funded the Nazis.
Read it online here: http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-hitler.html or here http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_stree ...
or buy it from Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Wall-Street-Hitler-Antony-Su ...
"Makes Every Previous Book on World War II Obsolete.
Finally, a distinguished scholar has penetrated the cloak of falsehood, deception, and duplicity that for more than thirty years has protected one of the most incredible secrets of World War II: the support from key Wall Street financiers and other international bankers in subsidizing Hitler's rise to power.
Professor Antony C. Sutton proves that World War II was not only well planned, it was also extremely profitable—for a select group of financial insiders. Carefully tracing this closely guarded secret through original documents and eyewitness accounts, Sutton documents the roles played by J.P. Morgan, T. W. Lamont, the Rockefeller interests, General Electric Company, Standard Oil, National City Bank, Chase and Manhattan banks, Kuhn, Loeb and Company, and scores of other business elitists.
Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler shows how the bloodiest, most destructive war in history was financed and promoted. It is sure to spark angry denials and heated debate."- Number23, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1It was the La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo!
- lacronicus, on 05/23/2008, -0/+1!
- mithrasinvictus, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3who are they backing now?
- iAlex, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1They who give them money and power.
- sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2NO it was the Duponts and Rockefellers, descendants of the Reptilians of Atlantis, attempting to begin a war that would end humanity. DURRRRRR
- Number23, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1It was the La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo!
- theliamburns1, on 05/21/2008, -8/+7Ok, i am starting to believe that there is some mass conspiracy happening.
Apparently, according to a biblical prophecy, If the jewish people return to their homeland (israel) this would allow for the second coming of Christ. I know this belief is somewhere on wikipedia but i can't seem to find it right now.
I dont personally believe this but i honestly think that many of our political leaders do. Theres so many articles I have read which make this kind of seem possible. I mean why did we split up palestine and give the jewish people Israel after WW2? Someone inform me on why, drop some knowledge on me!- truspector, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5A letter asking the same question in 1947:
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html- theliamburns1, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Exactly,
Does anyone really have an answer for this?
Did we just say hey Palestine sorry bout this but were just gonna split up your country and create a new one for the jewish people in your land.
Work it out. Be cool. It'll be OK.
*****, I would be ***** pissed. No wonder theres so much violence over there.
- theliamburns1, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Exactly,
- JosephStalin, on 05/21/2008, -0/+9http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism
From Christian Zionism:
Christian Zionism or Restorationism, is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy. Some Christian Zionists also believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism, mainly in English-speaking countries outside Europe. The idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged to become Christian, as a means fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been common in Protestant circles since the Reformation. - theliamburns1, on 05/21/2008, -2/+8And then again if you think about who actually funded Hitlers armies and devoted a whole ***** of money to this:
George Prescott Bush -
Im starting to honestly believe there a group of hardcore christian elitist who are manipulating wars and history to fulfill some sort of christian prophecy.
Ahmanijad or whatever the ***** his name is might actually be right in saying that the holocaust isnt what the books really portray it as. It was a ploy to eventually relocate the jews to Israel.
I mean look at our relationship with Israel right now. We are absolutely and overwhelmingly supporting them no matter what. I mean Israel could ***** in a bucket and dump it over the US and we'd call it just a little weather disturbance. you know, no big deal.
And this is comin from a whiteboy from the suburbs.- ShaoKahn, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2Congrats theliamburns1, you are officially thinking for yourself and connecting the dots in a logical way, if more people would do this propaganda would have no effect on the masses.
There are indeed people on high ranks who firmly believe in the fulfillment of these biblical stories. They have even pushed world politics to speed things up.. and there are millions of people who firmly believe and support these ideas, some very influential. - sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Sorry, the world isn't movie-plot simple like that. I know that the lack of obvious causality is hard to cope with, even scary sometimes, but you just have to deal with it. The world is pretty random and ***** sometimes, and the car is barreling down the road with no one at the wheel. If you really want to open your mind, go read some Michael Shermer or James Randi. Oh, and ShaoKahn - you can't call everyone who doesn't agree with you "sheeple" . Just wanted to preempt you there.
You seem like a genuinely curious fence-sitter liam. I hope you end up on the side of skeptical empiricism and not on the crazy boat.
- ShaoKahn, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2Congrats theliamburns1, you are officially thinking for yourself and connecting the dots in a logical way, if more people would do this propaganda would have no effect on the masses.
- OliveStreet, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5The basics of it are: The Palestinians backed Germany during the war and fought along side them in the desert against the allies. After the concentration camps were opened and shown to the world (who already knew of it, but lived in denial anyway), some reparation was deemed necessary. However, in 1947 the Palestinians were offered and rejected a thing called the Balfour Agreement, which essentially split the country in two, giving half to the Jews and half to Palestinians. Ever since, Jews have been under constant attack in one form or another.
One interesting thing to note: Most other Arabs, such as the Saudis, etc., have always considered the Palestinians as a lower class of people, kind of in the sense of India's cast system. Of course, the Arabs simple hate the Jews even more and so instead of ever trying to help the situation, they've only served to provoke Israeli/Jewish hate for some 60 years, and actually well before WWII as well.
Google this and see if I'm wrong.- theliamburns1, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Ya but why would they suddenly decide to split the country in two and give the other half to the jews as proper punishment????
I mean there is obviously a motivation to get the jews back to israel. I think this Balfour Agreement would be the political way of doing this without having people question it.- OliveStreet, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5This from infoplease.com:
"As part of the 19th-century Zionist movement, Jews had begun settling in Palestine as early as 1820. This effort to establish a Jewish homeland received British approval in the Balfour Declaration of 1917. During the 1930s, Jews persecuted by the Hitler regime poured into Palestine. The postwar acknowledgment of the Holocaust—Hitler's genocide of 6 million Jews—increased international interest in and sympathy for the cause of Zionism. However, Arabs in Palestine and surrounding countries bitterly opposed prewar and postwar proposals to partition Palestine into Arab and Jewish sectors. The British mandate to govern Palestine ended after the war, and, in 1947, the UN voted to partition Palestine. When the British officially withdrew on May 14, 1948, the Jewish National Council proclaimed the State of Israel."
I think the motivation you asking for is probably two-fold, but I'm no expert and just speculating here: 1) Jewish leaders, such as Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion, wanted to return to what they consider to be their rightful homeland, and more importantly 2) nobody wanted a bunch of Jews in the their land. Not the US, certainly not Russia, definitely nowhere in Europe. I've heard that somewhere in South America was actually considered for a new Jewish state, but obviously, that didn't happen.
Plus, you have remember, since the Palestinians were on the losing side of the war nobody really cared too much what they thought of the idea.
- OliveStreet, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5This from infoplease.com:
- theliamburns1, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Ya but why would they suddenly decide to split the country in two and give the other half to the jews as proper punishment????
- truspector, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5A letter asking the same question in 1947:
- jbmcb, on 05/21/2008, -23/+17Buried. Who cares what this guy says?
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6sadly, thousands of his idiot followers:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10052007/profile ... - MadKennyP, on 05/21/2008, -2/+12John McCain does. In February, McCain stated that Hagee "supports what I stand for and believe in."
- jbmcb, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3Didn't he follow that with "I disagree with his loony statements," or something like that?
- PolishLogic, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Yes, but when you have an agenda to push, or you're trying to deflect heat from your guy, you can't be bothered with adding that comment.
Right MadKennyP? - cquinnd, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2Fair enough PolishLogic; but do you really think the people buying that will be behind the anti-McCain rhetoric during the general election are going to bother adding that comment either? Accepting the endorsement still puts McCain between a rock and a hard place.
- MadKennyP, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1McCain has never repudiated Hagee's endorsement, which McCain is "glad" and "proud" to have.
- PolishLogic, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Yes, but when you have an agenda to push, or you're trying to deflect heat from your guy, you can't be bothered with adding that comment.
- jbmcb, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3Didn't he follow that with "I disagree with his loony statements," or something like that?
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6sadly, thousands of his idiot followers:
- bruinator, on 05/21/2008, -26/+45really everyone? this is different than wright/obama in the regards that McCain did not voluntarily attend Hagee's church for over 20 years and serve as an active parishioner sitting in the front row every sunday, unlike Obama who did not bother to question his pastor's radical beleifs until it was politically relevant for him.
Hagee has chosen to support McCain but McCain should not be held to account for Hagee's actions, neither should Obama, but Obama needs to explain his judgement in entertaining his pastor's ideas.- a2zb2b, on 05/21/2008, -8/+6Thank you for putting this in perspective. I'd have to agree that the situations are different.
- kc23266, on 05/21/2008, -5/+17McCain actively saught Hagee's endorsement.
- DaDrake, on 05/21/2008, -3/+3No... a campaign staffer was instructed to call every political leader in the area, before the primary, to help get McCain's position across. Also, the NYT reported that they only met 10 minutes, in passing at some GOP conference, in their entire life.....
BIG difference... I am sure I shaken the hand of some racist without knowing it.
- DaDrake, on 05/21/2008, -3/+3No... a campaign staffer was instructed to call every political leader in the area, before the primary, to help get McCain's position across. Also, the NYT reported that they only met 10 minutes, in passing at some GOP conference, in their entire life.....
- bruinator, on 05/21/2008, -6/+6true his endorsement, but not his advice and mentorship for almost half his life.
- tomsoppe, on 05/21/2008, -7/+5Most Republican "pastor's ideas" include slanderous homophobia, unscientific nonsense, and the idea that everyone who isn't Chrisitan is going to hell. And does the media criticize Republicans for it. No, they seem to complement them on it, as it proves they are regular people. Because to have reasonable or inclusive beliefs is to be a weirdo and elitist.
So after all the fundy Republicans out there with such ministers at their churches, the first person to get attacked for his minister is Obama. Coincidence? Or the same corporate media bias we see every presidential election?
And why isn't Wright allowed to be angry about what our country has done to minorities? I'm so sick of Patriotic Correctness. - Sharoney, on 05/21/2008, -4/+7McCain solicited and is proud of that support.
McSame doesn't need to explain why he pals around with this nutcase, because he's obviously and cynically doing it for the votes and the moolah. It'll bring in the wingnut dispensationalist and millenialist bucks. So that makes Mr. Straight Talk not only an opportunist but a hypocrite.- bruinator, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2first, if you reply to a thread don't discredit yourself by referring to McCain as McSame it makes you look like an idiot. Secondly, I couldnt agree with you more about why he's seeking Hagee's endorsement. However, your characterization of Hagee's beleifs based on a few Youtube snippets and your ability to take things out of context is quite an affront.
- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -3/+4First, Obama wasn't in the front row every Sunday. Second, McCain actively sought Hagee's endorsement- effectively endorsing Hagee's beliefs.
- bruinator, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2You're right he wasnt in the front row every sunday, according to Obama he was able to miss every sermon where wright espoused his radical beleifs. Seeking an endorsement from someone does not endorse their beleifs. It validates their position in the community as an authority on what he says or does.
- WasabiBomb, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2So you'd be okay with a candidate seeking endorsement from the KKK?
- bruinator, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2You're right he wasnt in the front row every sunday, according to Obama he was able to miss every sermon where wright espoused his radical beleifs. Seeking an endorsement from someone does not endorse their beleifs. It validates their position in the community as an authority on what he says or does.
- ggrzw, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Ummm, I think a lot of people go to church's that have pastors who say things they disagree with. Obama's relationship with Wright was personal. McCain's relationship with Hagee is political.
- Rodalli, on 05/21/2008, -9/+26Actually, this isn't so crazy if you talk to Old Testament scholars. It's commonly accepted by those in the field that God (Yhwh to the Jews) often used foreign powers or leaders (by foreign I mean not of Jewish blood) to exact vengeance upon the Jews for breaking God's commandments, or to even act as messiahs to deliver the Jews from the hands of their enemies or from destitution. This can be seen in the fall of Jerusalem, captivity among the Babylonians and freedom and return of Jewish lands by Cyrus.
The parallels between those biblical events I speak of and the events of World War II are incredibly striking, and many scholars have conceded this.
None of this is to say I approve of Hitler, or the terrible crimes against the Jews, or even of Mr. Hagee himself. I'm just saying that Mr. Hagee made a valid scholarly point for a minister to make, even from a Jewish perspective. It's likely that his words are being taken out of context to imply that he or God approved of Hitler's crimes and to cast an undeserved strike against McCain.
I'm voting for Obama, and there are good, well-constructed political and ethical reasons not to support McCain and his cronies. However, the comments of Mr. Hagee are not one of them.- bruinator, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Finally someone takes the time to craft out a logical response based on critical analysis of the situation at hand. Kudos.
- zmjone2992, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2You make a valid point, and this is no reason not to vote for McCain. All the same from what I heard it seems as though Hagee is saying that it was God's will to get the Jews back to Israel, so he allowed Hitler to slaughter them, so they would think it was a good idea. This is analogous to approval in my book. If this is the case then God is at least an accomplice to one of the greatest genocides in history.
- Rodalli, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Indeed, God is. By Christianity and Judaism's own admission, God is not only the accomplice, he is the direct cause. God commands full power over the universe and over the lives of every man, woman and child. You do nothing without God first knowing that you will do so and in fact, sometimes with his direct influence forcing you to do so.
God is responsible, on some level, for all good and all evil acts in the universe. By Christianity and Judaism's own teachings, God had the power to stop the holocaust from occurring and yet he did not. It is therefore arguable that God *wanted* the holocaust to occur so the Jews would return to their homeland which God apportioned for their use as part of the covenant(s) of the Old Testament/Torah. This is all Mr. Hagee was saying, and it is all that I am saying.
Now do you see why it is so difficult for these religions to be accepted by thinking men in our times? Their teachings and history strip us of almost all free will and responsibility for our lives. So few people truly study and understand their religions, yet we'll waste no time condemning one another over the subject.- skinturtle, on 05/21/2008, -1/+0Listen...the jews have flip flopped on their obedience to God for thousands of years. He brought them out of Egypt and as soon as they got over across the Red Sea...they started complaining. God told them to go and take the land that was promised to them. They got afraid because there were a land of giant people in their path...even tho God told them He would go ahead of them and fight for them. Of course they had a "better plan".
This kind of crap is what has gotten the Jews into so much trouble over the years. They will not listen to what God tells them to do...so...they go their own way and end up in the hands of these dictators who kill them.
Don't blame God. They are the ones who bring this stuff on themselves. Besides...I believe God did save their arses in the end of it when the Germans decided to try and take Russia during the winter. They walked right into a trap. - mvader, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0I don't know where you get your ideas from, but Christianity teaches that all humans HAVE free will. It is one of our strongest beliefs. You do not HAVE to bow down 5 times a day to pray or you will go to hell. You do not HAVE to go to church every Sunday (although it is encouraged). The ONLY thing you HAVE to do to go to heaven is believe that Jesus was God's son, died on the cross, and rose again in 3 days.
God does NOT want evil to occur. But he allows free will, and so humans have the choice: Do I set up concentration camps to kill Jews, or do I go home and tend my garden?
It is kind of like the control you have over your (young) children. You can control where they go, who they talk to, and what they play with, but if you love your children, you let them decide on their own.
That is what is called Free Will. If they decide to go out back with a magnifying glass and kill ants, that is their decision, not yours. If they go and use their allowance to buy other kids ice cream, that is also their decision.
Of course, God can and does influence people (and to take it to the next step, so does the devil) but their decisions are their own. And each person has COMPLETE responsibility for their actions, both good and bad.
You say that God could have stopped the Holocaust from happening. That is true. He could have made every Nazi out there keel over in an instant. But then you argue that because he didn't, he actually wanted it to happen. That is a patently false argument. Do you WANT your children to commit murder and go to jail? No. Could you stop them? Arguably, yes. You could have locked your children in the basement and then they couldn't hurt anyone. But once again, that takes away Free Will which neither you nor God will take away because of a little thing called Love.
(now digg me down you liberal diggers :) ) - OliveStreet, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0skinturtle, you're an idiot. I suppose having so many trains leading from the far corners of Europe to the gas chambers at Auschwitz were the Jews fault as well.
*****! Where do you find the intelligence to draw breath? - zmjone2992, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1you are obviously confusing free-ill with free-action. Free-will does not excuse God from the evil in the world. He could easily stop all or even most evil without touching free-will. Also environment has very much to do with culpability in a situation. Go read the Lucifer Effect, or read about the Stanford Prison experiment.
- skinturtle, on 05/21/2008, -1/+0Listen...the jews have flip flopped on their obedience to God for thousands of years. He brought them out of Egypt and as soon as they got over across the Red Sea...they started complaining. God told them to go and take the land that was promised to them. They got afraid because there were a land of giant people in their path...even tho God told them He would go ahead of them and fight for them. Of course they had a "better plan".
- Rodalli, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Indeed, God is. By Christianity and Judaism's own admission, God is not only the accomplice, he is the direct cause. God commands full power over the universe and over the lives of every man, woman and child. You do nothing without God first knowing that you will do so and in fact, sometimes with his direct influence forcing you to do so.
- frontalpha, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2I believe that notion. The title was very misleading.
- djangst, on 05/21/2008, -6/+2"Religious Scholar" is an oxymoron. They seek to restrict knowledge; not expand it. They only use one textbook; how smart can they be?
Theological opinions bear no weight in terms of true scholarship.- Rodalli, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Theological scholars claim to bear no weight in any subject except theological scholarship, which is what my post concerned. So what are you barking about? I'm an atheist, by the way, so if you're thinking to offend any religious sensibilities then I'm sure you'll find me a disappointment.
- pinkfish411, on 05/22/2008, -0/+0I'm a religious scholar. We don't use only one textbook, and most of us have not interest in restricting knowledge--you don't have to be the slightest bit religious to be a scholar of religion, and your scholarly findings don't have to support any particular religious belief, or any religious belief at all. The scholars who work with issues like this from the Old Testament are usually trained in reading several ancient and modern languages, and many are involved in manuscript restoration and preservation, archaeological work, etc., so even if you don't have to be Einstein to do the job, they're generally pretty smart people.
It helps to know a little bit about a discipline before you make yourself look like an idiot by trashing it.- notanidiot, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Ummm... have you ever listened to Hagee? He is a hateful piece of ***** who relishes the end of the world. He isn't someone who just studies several religions and ancient books, he constantly preaches the end of the world to his idiot followers. He wants to bring about the end of the world by setting up a new Israel, so that maybe Iran will nuke them, and nuclear holocaust can ensue, causing the end of the world.
If this is scholarly, then pass me a TV guide. - pinkfish411, on 05/22/2008, -0/+0Thing is, no one here claimed that Hagee was scholarly. Rodalli just said that on this particular issue, Hagee's not saying anything too far out of touch with religious scholarship, and my only point was that, yes, there is such a thing as religious scholarship, and it isn't an oxymoron.
- notanidiot, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Ummm... have you ever listened to Hagee? He is a hateful piece of ***** who relishes the end of the world. He isn't someone who just studies several religions and ancient books, he constantly preaches the end of the world to his idiot followers. He wants to bring about the end of the world by setting up a new Israel, so that maybe Iran will nuke them, and nuclear holocaust can ensue, causing the end of the world.
- toowired77, on 05/21/2008, -2/+0Why is your God only concerned for Jewish people? What about your ancestors? If Jews are being punished for their ancestor's idolatry, what about you? If you are a human being, your ancestors were not monotheists. I fail to understand a religion that has to worship God by assigning Him/Her foreign attributes. This guy (Hagee) has a mostly black congregation and they spend all their time talking about Israel? What kind of spirituality promotes nationalism? Not only nationalism, but a nationalism which has nothing to do with the nation we are now living in. I was also raised to mention the 'God of Israel' , but now I worship the God of the universe who has no favorites and doesn't care for our foolish nationalism.
- snassiri, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0Rare that someone takes the time to construct a thought-out response to something like this. Seems headlines are most people's source of news and what most people form their opinions on. Guess that's what a society of people with short attention spans looks like.
- Flashtone, on 05/22/2008, -0/+1Thanks Rod.. really made me sit back and listen to what he had to say again.
- tnelson51, on 05/21/2008, -9/+6This will get excused by MSM. As Huckleberry's "joke" about assassinating Obama. Only Obama and most dems get excoriated for their remarks. Republicans are allowed to say and do the ugliest things. Had enough?
- BruticusMaximus, on 05/21/2008, -6/+10Hmmm, didn't God talk to Bush too?
- dondara, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Yeah, he said to GW to quit calling him
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3"President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/sto ... - Esstee, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1I doubt doubt god spoke to Bush. - Question is which god was it?
- ShaoKahn, on 05/21/2008, -1/+0Probably mr. Baphomet, he often visits the white house
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet - sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Stop reading Aleister Crowley and H.P. Lovecraft and thinking it's real, stoner. You know that Baphomet was created in the mid 1800s by a loon who was riding the trend of spiritualism following the "Enlightenment". Did you even read your own source?
- ShaoKahn, on 05/21/2008, -1/+0Probably mr. Baphomet, he often visits the white house
- BrewmasterC, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2An alternative explanation of the prophecy is that the Palestinians were the fishermen and the Israelis have became the hunters....
- sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3That's the trouble with the Bible, Nostradamus, and all the other prophetic fictions. It's always written vaguely enough so that you can interpret it however you please, but in terms just esoteric enough to seem knowledgeable and deep.
- lornefs, on 05/21/2008, -6/+10As soon as I see evangelical I think douchebag asshat.
- dondara, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4Too mild but I like where you are going with it
- provost, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1When you judge someone by a lifestyle, religion, race or culture, its called being prejudice.
- SheilaNoya, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3What's it called when you judge someone for trying to make people think that God wants us to kill certain people? Have you ever heard Hagee talk about Iran? Hagee is dangerous and he gets too many gullible people to believe that they are on a mission for God when they hate others.
- provost, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3judging an individual by their actions or words is obviously different than judging a group by their lifestyle, race/creed or culture.
- provost, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3judging an individual by their actions or words is obviously different than judging a group by their lifestyle, race/creed or culture.
- SheilaNoya, on 05/22/2008, -0/+3What's it called when you judge someone for trying to make people think that God wants us to kill certain people? Have you ever heard Hagee talk about Iran? Hagee is dangerous and he gets too many gullible people to believe that they are on a mission for God when they hate others.
- sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2I think tinfoil hat. Most of the evangelicals I've met think they can hear and detect demons, and that 911 was an inside job (perpetrated by Jews, of course).
- snassiri, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1All the evangelicals I know and know of are all staunch supporters of the Jewish people and state, so I don't know where you come off thinking that evangelicals think that 9/11 was an inside job perpetrated by Jews. In fact, this article is about a pastor who is so staunchly pro-Israel, that he chose to endorse the militaristic pro-Israel McCain over evangelical darling Huckabee.
- GrodyChamp, on 05/21/2008, -19/+29Funny how McCain didn't go to his church for 20 something years. Hooray for more ***** Obama spam!
Damn it I can't wait for this election to be over so we can have Digg back from huffingtonpost spam- SheilaNoya, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2McCain spent an entire year trying to get Hagee to endorse him so he could gain some credibility with the crazy evangelicals. Now McCain refuses to denounce Hagee, even after all of this crap has surfaced. McCain can't piss off the religious nuts because they are Bush's only remaining "base" and he needs these gullible idiots on his side if he wants to win.
Using religion as a sleazy political tool is disgusting, no matter what party you belong to.
- SheilaNoya, on 05/22/2008, -1/+2McCain spent an entire year trying to get Hagee to endorse him so he could gain some credibility with the crazy evangelicals. Now McCain refuses to denounce Hagee, even after all of this crap has surfaced. McCain can't piss off the religious nuts because they are Bush's only remaining "base" and he needs these gullible idiots on his side if he wants to win.
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -4/+9hagee and his group CUFI are a bunch of hateful war-mongers who want to bring the end of the world to fulfill a biblical prophecy. normally such idiots can be written off, as is the case with fred phelps or heaven's gate. but these guys have actual political influence, especially on our foreign policy. they are much more dangerous than a million rev. wrights. bill moyers did a piece on hagee and his group:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10052007/profile ...- frontalpha, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1It's annoying how you don't capitalize the beginning of your sentences. And you know us Evangelical Conservatives, that want to end the world. I think you comment was rash and irrelevant to the topic.
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1it's annoying how you don't write in complete sentences.
- frontalpha, on 05/23/2008, -0/+1You won't capitalize your sentences either! haha
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1it's annoying how you don't write in complete sentences.
- frontalpha, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1It's annoying how you don't capitalize the beginning of your sentences. And you know us Evangelical Conservatives, that want to end the world. I think you comment was rash and irrelevant to the topic.
- mzx639, on 05/21/2008, -15/+18Is this supposed to be some kind of comparison to the Obama/Wright relationship? Please! There is no comparison...BURIED!
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5you're right. there is no comparison. one blamed 9/11 on our foreign policy. the other blamed it on the gays. clearly the latter is crazier.
- apackofmonkeys, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3Yes, but conversely, one blamed AIDS on the government, and the other blamed it on the gays. Clearly the former is crazier.
- mzx639, on 05/21/2008, -5/+1Clearly you are the idiot. The inference of this article is NOT the comparison between Hagee and Wright, the article is trying to infer that the relationship, association and influence of Wright over Omaba, is somehow similar to that of some association of Hagee and McCain. Obama breaths and lives almost every piece of garbage Wright spouted out of his mouth. McCain could care less about Hagee.
- wacomwacoff, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3Obama has repeatedly denounced the ideas of Wright and distanced himself from the man. He's never used any of Wright's ideas in his writing or platform.
McCain, on the other hand, has refused to renounce Hagee's endorsement -- which he actively sought.- mzx639, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1Obama was in that Church for over 20 years under the guidance of Wright!! Wright married Obama and his wife, baptized his children, was his good friend and spiritual adviser! Obama even titled his book after a quote from Wright! You can't compare that with Hagee and McCain, it's not even close.
- cquinnd, on 05/22/2008, -0/+2"You can't compare that with Hagee and McCain..."
Yes we can. Each man can make up his own mind, and is fully capable of discerning the good from the bad in the advice and guidance they are given. The difference is Obama had to make those choices on a personal level, while McCain is making himself beholden to those choices as a price for advancing his political career.
- wacomwacoff, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2No, it's a statement that a man who McCain's good friends with... a man whose endorsement he accepts, a man whose ideas he says he agrees with... is a very scary preacher who believes that God wanted Hitler to kill Jews and that God caused Katrina to wipe out gay people in New Orleans.
- Alexandru25, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2Dumbass, McCain only met the guy once... when support was given. Less then a week later he found out how crazy his is and denounced him.
The problem with the Huff post is that is blatantly ***** LIES.- wacomwacoff, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3You're very wrong.
McCain never denounced Hagee; he said that he was still honored by the endorsement but didn't agree with all of Hagee's ideas.
There aren't any lies in the story referenced here. - ggrzw, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2He never denounced him. He said he didn't agree with him on everything. He didn't repudiate his endorsement.
- wacomwacoff, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3You're very wrong.
- Alexandru25, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2Dumbass, McCain only met the guy once... when support was given. Less then a week later he found out how crazy his is and denounced him.
- pintomp3, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5you're right. there is no comparison. one blamed 9/11 on our foreign policy. the other blamed it on the gays. clearly the latter is crazier.
- vwvan, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2Just because we want to believe something doesn't make it true.
Just because we don't want to believe something doesn't make it false.
Just because something is said authoritatively, doesn't make it true.
That is the fallacy argumentum ad baculum.
There's no measuring stick for pronouncement, ranting, or self-appointed authority.
Why waste time paying attention to it?
Google "36 common fallacies explained". - ouzome, on 05/21/2008, -10/+13I love how all the Dem Diggs jumped all over this saying McCain is done for, except the MSM won't pick it up. Hell, if it was actually a story MSNBC and CNN would be all over it because they are Dems!
Endorser vs. Mentor
Endorser vs. Pastor
For all we know Charles Manson endorses Obama, but would you care about that Dem Diggs?- BonhamsGhost, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Yes, if Obama explicitly sought out and received Mansons endorsement (as McCain did with Hagee) it would make me question his sanity and alter my voting plans. Of course Mansons a bit worse than Hagee or Wright....
- PolishLogic, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Yet giving a man (who you know will endorse you based on a longstanding close personal relationship) a position on one of your campaign committees, from which you ask him to later step down from...all while that man is making grandious radical statements is ok with you?
Just trying to get everything cleared up. - sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1You've got that last part backwards.
- PolishLogic, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Yet giving a man (who you know will endorse you based on a longstanding close personal relationship) a position on one of your campaign committees, from which you ask him to later step down from...all while that man is making grandious radical statements is ok with you?
- tomsoppe, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1The MSM is run by Republican corporations. If this isn't the case why do they ignore every Bush scandal until public opinion gets too obvious to ignore it, while swiftboating Dems during every election cycle.
The MSM is full of nothing but conservatives talking about the "liberal media". And people actually fall for the idea that the media is liberal, without even noticing that the hundreds of people on the media that they absorb this line from are conservatives.
Yes, yes, x percentage of reporters are Dems, whatever. As if the low-on-the-totem-pole people are controlling content, not the owners, editors, etc. who are statistically Republican.- ouzome, on 05/22/2008, -1/+0Your idea of the MSM must be one cable news channel, Fox News, and a couple AM radio stations. Nice try, but CNN, MSNBC, PBS, NPR, Katie Couric, Dan Rather, etc, etc, and many newspapers are as leftists as they can possibly be.
Get your head out of the left coast.
- ouzome, on 05/22/2008, -1/+0Your idea of the MSM must be one cable news channel, Fox News, and a couple AM radio stations. Nice try, but CNN, MSNBC, PBS, NPR, Katie Couric, Dan Rather, etc, etc, and many newspapers are as leftists as they can possibly be.
- ggrzw, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2You better believe I'd care if Obama thanked Charles Manson for his endorsement.
- BonhamsGhost, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Yes, if Obama explicitly sought out and received Mansons endorsement (as McCain did with Hagee) it would make me question his sanity and alter my voting plans. Of course Mansons a bit worse than Hagee or Wright....
- regression, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2Nah, what I think he is saying is that by the jews going back to israel, the world is coming closer to god's return. Now, if you are a christian who believes that the world is going to end like it says in revelation, you want these things. Why, because that means you will be closer to God. Personally, I don't care. I think he is doing this because he wants the craziest ***** out there to "prove" to the inbred sheep in the south that he is a man of faith. McCain will say anything to get elected. Look at what he said in 2k. He was more moderate and thoughtful with his speeches, thus, completely unelectable.
- JQP123, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3"Evangelical leader" is an oxymoron.
- sonofblacula, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Look that word up. In fact, look all those words up.
- snassiri, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0