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How Does Language Exist In The Brain?
sciencedaily.com — The “La Mente Bilingüe” research team that doctor Itziar Laka leads in the Faculty of Arts at the University of the Basque Country analyses bilingual processing of language. The aim is to find out how the brain acquires and manages languages and to discover in what way languages being similar or different is influential in this process.
SirPopper- 670 diggs
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- mtwoar, on 07/01/2008, -6/+4Maybe Dr. Laka can explain what happened here.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/03/28/12062073 ...- PSotter, on 07/01/2008, -2/+1WTF?! Raped by a wombat?! If it was by a "bear," then maybe I'd find it more interesting.
- mtwoar, on 07/01/2008, -1/+1Woof! :)
- PSotter, on 07/01/2008, -2/+1Of course we'll be dugg down for the innuendo. Cheers.
- megamod, on 07/01/2008, -4/+2You've been saving that one for quite a while (Article was written in March) huh? Do you just have a list of bizarre articles that are just sitting there awaiting for the perfect opportunity to be referenced in a comment?
- mtwoar, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Not really, but it's good to see you are so enthusiastic about my post! Isn't it funny how the brain links things together. Research into language reminds one of an article where some guy claimed to speak in another dialect. It's uncanny!
- mtwoar, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Not really, but it's good to see you are so enthusiastic about my post! Isn't it funny how the brain links things together. Research into language reminds one of an article where some guy claimed to speak in another dialect. It's uncanny!
- PSotter, on 07/01/2008, -2/+1WTF?! Raped by a wombat?! If it was by a "bear," then maybe I'd find it more interesting.
- teethandeyes, on 07/01/2008, -2/+9William S. Burroughs once said that language is a virus.
Language is one of the most important facets of humanity and not nearly studied enough.
Our thought constructs are completely controlled by our language. This accounts for much of the difference between Eastern and Western thought. This is fascinating stuff.- SixOrSoPapers, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3"Our thought constructs are completely controlled by our language."
As stated, that is an exaggeration (it is something along the lines of the strong Sapir-Whorf hypothesis) and is not in line with the majority of linguists. It would be more accurate to make the less ambitious claim that
"Our thought constructs are influenced by our language."
I do completely agree though about it being both important and fascinating.
- SixOrSoPapers, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3"Our thought constructs are completely controlled by our language."
- metalhead3767, on 07/01/2008, -1/+19When I got really high off benadryl I would hallucinate auditory. It was interesting that I only heard voices. The things they were saying weren't in any language. It was distinct sounds, like the pieces of words. The only sounds I heard were voices. I thought it was interesting that the brain knew the difference between voices and other kinds of sounds.
- moocow1452, on 07/01/2008, -6/+1What does you know? You OD'ed off of allergy medication.
- topgigmedia, on 07/01/2008, -1/+5great point. When I am fortunate enough to be able to sneak a nap in the afternoon. Light instrumental music seems to almost instantly relax me as long as I focus on it and nothing else.
- ohmahgawd, on 07/01/2008, -0/+19Try and think without using words in your mind for a few minutes. If you can do it--most can't, and yeah, it is ruined even if one word sneaks in--it actually relaxes you. I wonder why.
And staring at the wall and just thinking about the sounds in the room doesn't count. I mean seriously, try and THINK about stuff, like what you'll do today, something you saw when you were a kid, how to clean the gutters, or sex, without using any words, no mind-talk at all, just visuals completely displaced from language.- TwiztOG43, on 07/01/2008, -0/+10yeah I've always thought about that. like when ever we think we always have to use words. but how do animals think? like for example dogs... do they bark and growl in their heads or what?
very interesting- Scynet, on 07/01/2008, -0/+5Or even just people who were born deaf. There's an article (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031226.html ) saying that deaf people can think in sign language if they've learnt it. But indeed, I think one of the main reasons animals aren't intelligent is because their communication skills are quite weak and basic.
- hoowahman, on 07/01/2008, -2/+1I feel that's how I always think without words, probably why I suck at communicating to others.
- iofthestorm, on 07/01/2008, -5/+1Hmm, thinking in visuals is interesting. But at first I was wondering how you could think without using words. I'm still not entirely sure whether thinking in visuals counts as thinking.
- AdmiralAcbar, on 07/01/2008, -2/+3This is what is so relaxing about classical music, actually.
- BoatCaptainBob, on 07/01/2008, -2/+4How interesting. I always imagined most people "thought" without using words in their minds, which is what I usually do. We are probably confusing terms and breaking something massively complex into a single word called "thinking", though.
Do you talk to yourself in your mind when you do puzzles, or put something complicated together? I don't, I assumed most didn't as well. When your thinking of something to say do you talk to yourself in your mind? Or making your daily list of to do's? I rarely talk to myself, I just kind of conjure them up.
Interesting, I guess I really never thought about..thinking.- noumuon, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4i would assume most people would use a combination, especially with puzzles. take something like sudoku. you visualize numbers being placed then draw lines with your eyes to see what exclusions that creates, but you occasionally run out of direct or 2-3 step exclusions and need to form, generally, two sets of if-then statements with the visualizations of other exclusions in order to see if any contradictions arise. you either have to combine visualizing and worded logic or fill in the blanks and use an eraser for the difficult puzzles. the same can be said for chess, as you can only create so many visual permutations of the pieces before you lose some you created - which can cause problems in forming a strategy. you can hold far more information if you use a combination of visual and language thought.
- noncon, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2I believe most people think in a linearly sequential fashion that is much like reading text. If they are more image oriented, they see the words, sentences and even key aspects of paragraphs as pictures, although the input and processing may still be linear. People who are extremely linear (word) based, in my opinion, are the ones who have a hard time multitasking or maintaining several conversations at once.
Other people think more in a holographic way. They see image streams. Body language and tones become as "loud" as the words they are hearing in conversation. Conversations kick up images that sometimes overwhelm the words and make them appear inattentive.
Everyone has varying degrees of both, but the dyslexic people I've talked to seem to be much more picture-oriented when thinking. This might be why there is little dyslexia in cultures where their language uses pictograms.
- myalibi, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2Quieting your internal dialog relaxes you because it shifts your attention away from the mental body and puts your focus more into your emotional body.
Everything you experience here on earth can be put into three categories, Physical, Emotional and Mental. When you focus your attention on your emotional self you then instinctively balance all three of your selves because your emotional body holds your instinctual center.
Furthermore, your emotional self is also the key to your 4th dimensional astral self, although the astral self is found in the mental body at first. If you can effectively balance all three of your selves, physical, emotional and mental, then you will begin to experience the astral/conscious dreaming when you go to sleep, but this takes more than just quieting your dialog, although that will help a lot.
- TwiztOG43, on 07/01/2008, -0/+10yeah I've always thought about that. like when ever we think we always have to use words. but how do animals think? like for example dogs... do they bark and growl in their heads or what?
- leerayIG88, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2They exist because they can? mann....people these days.
- galvo, on 07/01/2008, -4/+2Stay awake for three or more days straight...
you'll learn a whole new language. - PSotter, on 07/01/2008, -1/+8Very cool article. My niece, who is 3 years old, is being cared for by a Spanish-speaking nanny. Everyone in my family is bilingual, being Mexican-American, but it's so amazing observing her choose when it is appropriate to speak in Spanish vs. English. She can either speak exclusively in one language or "code switch" now, which even I have trouble with.
- Versh, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Back in the 9th grade Spanish Class, one of my classmates who spent half of his life in Honduras once remarked how he "thinks and dreams in Spanish, but uses some English words as mere synonyms to the Spanish equivalents." To him, the casual forms of speech weren't an effort of translation, just a difference of formal and informal, like using slang or proper syntax.
- nepidae, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1Back when I lived in The Netherlands (I'm from the US) I would regularly substitute Dutch words in for English ones as synonyms. Either "just because" or because I felt they were closer to what my meaning was.
- Versh, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Back in the 9th grade Spanish Class, one of my classmates who spent half of his life in Honduras once remarked how he "thinks and dreams in Spanish, but uses some English words as mere synonyms to the Spanish equivalents." To him, the casual forms of speech weren't an effort of translation, just a difference of formal and informal, like using slang or proper syntax.
- BossKey, on 07/01/2008, -1/+1The question of the brain's model for acquiring, synthesizing, and continuously adapting language is quite a fascinating scientific subject.
Oh, and by the way...im in yr base, killing yr doodz. - kmattso, on 07/01/2008, -8/+701000100100100101001010100100010100101010001010001010100101
- PSotter, on 07/01/2008, -3/+0clever... here's one:
MSMAYSITHFHKLPLHSSPIFSPIPRFPSNLSPPFPSLLNKSSQK - passedoutghost, on 07/02/2008, -0/+0You got that tattoo of Bender on your ass too huh?
- PSotter, on 07/01/2008, -3/+0clever... here's one:
- TheRealToma, on 07/01/2008, -6/+12I was thinking the other day, and Im sure Im not the first to think this, but without language, would there be a God?
- phorty40, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3depends how deeply you equate organized religion with god.
- Arcesius, on 07/01/2008, -3/+7I'm being half facetious here, but according to Christian theology, isn't God "the Word"?.... in the beginning was the word... and the word was with god... and the word was god.... or something like that... so, perchance, you're correct!! *scratches beard ponderously*...
of course, that's if you totally neglect the original Greek word for "the word"... being logos... which, unless I'm mistaken, also means vibration... which would synchronize nicely with the modern scientific understanding of things... but, of course, that would then throw off the whole Christian concept of the bible being "the word of God".... *shrugs*
- WhiZa, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2Let's remove someone's brain and see if they can can still talk
- FieldAnonymouse, on 07/01/2008, -3/+0*insert obligatory Bush/redneck joke here*
- Dustmuffins, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1Don't be that guy.
- FieldAnonymouse, on 07/01/2008, -3/+0*insert obligatory Bush/redneck joke here*
- s4g4n, on 07/01/2008, -6/+1My Mama always said, "Stupid is as stupid does"
- phorty40, on 07/01/2008, -4/+7language is just as much an impediment as it is a necessity
- cambob76, on 07/01/2008, -1/+2How does the Moon exist in the water's surface?
- tatinthehat, on 07/01/2008, -2/+4Just for clarification, using ERP doesn't tell us much about what brain structures are active in language processing, rather it's a good tool in order to analyze the time course of how the mind processes language. (fMRI could do this too, but ERP is a much more cost-effective way to do this if you don't have enough money to purchase an fMRI machine).
Additionally, different types of "waves" can signify different types of processes (for instance, an 'N400' wave could signify syntactic processing...don't quote me on this though, I'm not a real expert...) - o0joshua0o, on 07/01/2008, -0/+7Does the language you speak affect the way you think about things?
- Scynet, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4Of course, since the way you think is limited by the words in the language. In the big picture it might not make a very big difference, all languages are very similar in the way that objects, activities and events have names, and we use these names ("words") to think and communicate. But what if a language didn't have the word "tomorrow" or "next day"? How would you think about it? By imagining a moon rise and set? Thinking a sunrise, perhaps?
- o0joshua0o, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1What about all the little connotations and shades of meaning that each word has? It seems like these probably shape your thinking on a subconscious level, at least.
- tatinthehat, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1I'm sure it does, to some degree. You might want to check out the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesi ... which is exactly what your describing, and the myth about Eskimo Words for Snow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow ...
The argument for this Eskimo thing is that they perceive snow differently since they have lots of words for it...or is it they just have the ability to describe it differently but still hold a larger concept of snow?
- Scynet, on 07/01/2008, -1/+4Of course, since the way you think is limited by the words in the language. In the big picture it might not make a very big difference, all languages are very similar in the way that objects, activities and events have names, and we use these names ("words") to think and communicate. But what if a language didn't have the word "tomorrow" or "next day"? How would you think about it? By imagining a moon rise and set? Thinking a sunrise, perhaps?
- hollyminkowski, on 07/01/2008, -0/+14As a radio geek I am used to conversing in morse code. It's not actually a different language but it is very different than spoken or written language. At first you associate the sound of a morse letter with the letter and write that letter down (you strive to NEVER pay attention to the individual dots and dashes...just the SOUND). As you progress you begin to copy entire words, starting with the common words like the, we, at, in, as...etc. Later, when you start copying around 25 words per minute you hear complete phrases...and when I got above 40wpm I began to just hear the meaning of the conversation as it rushed past....it is an amazing thing. I wonder if these researchers ever considered studying morse operators?
Morse is pretty cool...kind of the first digital language, made up of long and short sounds separated by long and short pauses. First put into wide use during the Civil War with operators as young as 12 stringing wire through the woods and handling message traffic.
Morse is still the mode of choice for weak signal work as it gets the message through when other modes fail. Most moon-bounce traffic is morse and when mars-bounce is accomplished it will be done with morse. http://www.zr6bri.co.za/marsbounce00.htm- Jcsmooth52, on 07/01/2008, -1/+3Well when the world ends I wanna be close hollyminkowski so that I can still communicate with the outside world.
- LemurHorde, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1It might be interesting to use morse operators in a study on how raw sound input data is then processed and associated with meaning. Because there are only two sounds (dot and dash), and a limited number of letters and symbols (26+), I would think it would keep the number of initial pathways to a minimum, making things less complicated. I wonder if suitably sensitive equipment could detect what sound/letter was just heard by analyzing neuronal activity patterns. Once you figure that out, you could then watch as a signal propagates from a "set of sounds" to meaning. By the way Hollyminkowski, can you think in morse (rather than English)?
- hollyminkowski, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2I never tried it! Or thought of it... let me try it and see :-)
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Hmmmm... best I was able to do was hear the morse internally for any object I look at.... looking at text and trying to substitute morse sound for the usual voice you hear does not seem to work. I suspect that is due to the endless hours I have spent automatically translating text to internal spoken language, My morse skills can't compete with that.
When I send morse I think in English words and it is automatically translated to hand movements on the morse paddles...no effort is involved at all.
Netlingo is making its way into morse.... laughter is traditionally sent on morse as "hi hi" but I use and hear lol often now even though it is not as melodic as the sound for hi hi.
- hollyminkowski, on 07/01/2008, -0/+2I never tried it! Or thought of it... let me try it and see :-)
- cheezintern, on 07/01/2008, -2/+4I like to think there's a couple monkeys typing typewriters, and then sending it down a chute, where it ultimately comes out as words from my mouth.
- Jcsmooth52, on 07/01/2008, -0/+3I also wonder how the brain sees numbers because I have these dreams where someone tells me a number but I can't ever write it down without messing it up, Its like I can't write numbers. I thought I read that you can't read when you dream but that may have been an old batman the animated series episode.
- MSP1, on 07/01/2008, -2/+2Many Diggers don't have brains which accounts for thee language problems.
- nojingoist, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1This is a common thing. For some reason people can't visualize numbers well in dreams. In fact one of the techniques to induce lucid dreaming is training yourself to check your digital watch twice. The numbers usually become unreadable. (supposedly. I dont have a personal exp. with this)
- apersaud, on 07/01/2008, -0/+6I'm what is called a simultaneous bilingual. My mom only knew Spanish (but could somewhat understand English) and my dad only knew how to speak English (but could somewhat understand Spanish) when I was growing up - So I ended up learning both languages equally and was able to "code-switch" between them when the entire family got into a discussion.
From the article: "How do babies realise that they are in a bilingual environment?"
From my experience and much thought (since I'm dating a speech pathologist), I've realized that young bilingual babies don't know they are in a bilingual environment at all. English and Spanish words (for example) are all put in the same 'language bucket' when growing up. We just saw it as one language, which explains reasons for Spanglish (when you start the sentence in one language (ex. Spanish), then in the middle code-switch to another (English), then maybe code-switch back to Spanish). Code-switching happens a lot for those who didn't know.
It is only when I started attending kindergarten school that the words that I learned were placed into either the 'English' category and 'Spanish' category - and it was only then, after putting each of the words I knew in different 'language buckets' that I was bilingual.
Hopefully this provides insight to some.- tatinthehat, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1Building upon your "language bucket" idea, I would think the results of this study are pretty intuitive. Age obviously is a major factor in language acquisition. This is why it is so hard to learn another language when you're a teenager as opposed to when you were at the age of 1.
Babies develop their phonology (or their native sound system) early on, in the womb. They listen to their mothers speak. It's possible that A baby will start learning two languages if the parent is also a bilingual. English has it's own sound system, as does Spanish, etc. I suspect if you are learning two languages right off the bat, you are slower to acquire both languages at once than one language at once (which isn't necessarily a deficiency). Thus you eventually develop two intact sound systems so "code-switching" becomes easier.
If you were to learn a second language at the age of 5, you already have set in stone your first sound system, and have already passed a great deal of time where you could pick up language easily. Sure, you can develop another sound system. But the process in which you access concepts will be slightly different.
Think of it this way, if you pick up a two languages right at birth, both those languages will interact simultaneously to retrieve some concept in the mind.
If you pick up one language, then subsequently pick up another language say, 5 or 6 years after birth, more than likely you will rely on your L1 (native language) to access your L2 (second language). At that point, you will access the concept......at a slower speed than a "true" bilingual.
- tatinthehat, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1Building upon your "language bucket" idea, I would think the results of this study are pretty intuitive. Age obviously is a major factor in language acquisition. This is why it is so hard to learn another language when you're a teenager as opposed to when you were at the age of 1.
- rmeddy, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1Takete and Maluma.
- 101phones, on 07/01/2008, -1/+1Only one language exist in me head, but it has multiple voices...
- jamiecarter, on 07/03/2008, -0/+0The Brian is a fascinating organ!.. Brilliant read..
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